Can Anybody Clarify?.....

[moo-ham-head]

Can anybody here tell me exactly what the 'Muslim World' sees as its goals and demands? i was tempted to be abusive and just leave a stupid message but then it occured to me it would be worth asking what price I as an Englishman might have to pay.
Lets assume for the purposes of this conversation that your bombs pay off and the leaders of the western world meet and decide to contact Al Quaida with a view to talks....what would their demands be? What exactly is it you want in return for a halt to the terrorism?
Also, because I'm stupid, tell me this.....Lets assume, again for the purposes of this discussion, that there are many numerous successful attaks in Great Britain.....Do you seriously think there won't be an uprising within that country and the end result will be a right-wing government that will ban the Muslim faith and deport anybody they deem unsuitable which will basically be everyone from Pakistan.
My question is, do you see the advancement of the right-wing in Britain as a good thing for your brothers campaign or a bad thing, does it play into the hands of your plans?
I'm happy to clarify I hate radical islam and everyone involved in it but I thought it would be worthwhile pursuing an explanation for the current and past violence.

[abdul-ali]

You are being terrorised by your own governments, who are controlled by ideological capitalists. Look into this and you will realise the truth.

Admittedly and quite rightly so the muslim world hates the actions and ideology of the capitalists, because they have made the rest of the world a miserable place thinking it is their back yard.

However the actions of a few hot-heads, which have been oft manipulated by your own security services and those in power, are not the representatives of the the muslim world, rather some reactionaries to your government's attrocities.

The muslim world had a way of life which was a beacon of light, giving human beings dignity, but they fell into slumber and let the wolves take control, and now there is a struggle to restore the beacon of light.

You will are being terrorised by those who you think are your own to keep you in line to act like sheep or cannon fodder.

[moo-ham-head]

OK, Here's my question. Lets say I accept that you believe what you say, what if I...as a British subject...think you are totally wrong and refuse to recognise what I see as extreme views, what happenes then? what happens when you alienate even moderate thinking people, what happens to you and your religion when the moderate majority in a country like Great Britain have had enough and decide the only way to defeat Islamic terrorists is to have muslims forcibly removed. Can you not see that if you cannot determine who the terrorists are, if they are in fact schoolteachers and doctors , then theonly way to ensure peace is remove everyone. Do you realise that everything you do just turns more people against you as people and you as a religion. I dont understand why you think terorrism will work because I would argue it is going to have the opposite effect.

[abdul-ali]

I think you didn't read what I wrote and just have one or two questions spinning in your head. like what woudl you do if the British Government decided to expell Muslims.

Do you even want to know who is actually behind the Terrorism you are asking about and the pawns whose pictures and identity hits the media within 24hrs of an incident so obviously timed for political purposes.

Do you even know that Muslims are not a race of people of a certain nationality, rather it is humans who hold a certain creed/belief, so tomorrow if one your close relatives believes in God you are going to expell him to where?

[moo-ham-head]

Of course I realise Muslims hold a certain belief, thats what troubles me. my question for you would be, if my relatives believe in god do you think they will go to Glasgow Airport and blow it up? The answer is no and you are evading the question. You are talking as if there is no connection between the terrorist fanatics wgo bombed the airport and the tube and your religion. Your religion breeds terrorism because paople are brainwashed, how else can you explain 72 virgins? And your friend in Glasgow...he has 90% burns....where did that fit into the plan of paradise? I'm wasting your time, just answer this question for me and then I wont bother you again.....Do you think its possible for Muslim terrorists to cause a civil war in Britain on the streets because of terrorist attacks?...and....If you answer yes to that question, how do you think this will affect your cause?
I ask the question because I believe thats where we are headed.

[moo-ham-head]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6280884.stm

And....I'm sure you'll be happy to endorse this message.

[Peregrine_Falcon]

moo-ham-head

I think you are missing the point. The bomb attacks are being orchestrated by your own security services. And they are the ones brainwashing a few misguided individuals and setting up others.

[AbuMujahid]

First of all I would advise you to change your name.
If you do not, I request the administrator to ban this individual from the forum to set the standard.

To address your issue. We do not condone these "suicide operations" and your assumption that we do shows not only your ignorance about HT but about Islam generally. What we seek to do is to resume the Islamic way of life by establishing a state based on the ideology of Islam.

As an individual who has lived all his life indoctrinated by hollow mad made values of liberalism, human rights and freedom, I would not expect you to appreciate the Islamic ideology. Nor would I expect you to appreciate the shortcomings of the capitalist thought upon which the foundations of every western nation rest.

It might come as a shock to you but the Islamic belief is a rational one. We can prove the existance of a creator. We can prove that Islam is the truth. The west on the other hand cannot substantiate the principles it holds so dearly. Human Rights, Freedoms etc. are hollow concepts coined by men which, in reality, do no exist.

As for your threat of a right-wing government. We do not care. Our work will continue irrespective of whether you vote in a liberal government or a right-wing government and irrespective of whether you are "tolerant" to us or not.

[neelu]

I can clarify a few things here:

1: This is a Muslim forum and if you're seeking some clarity with regards to what the Islamic view is on any given issue, then you've come to the right place (although don't be surprised if other Muslim forums offer very different responses to the same questions as the Muslim community is a very diverse one)

2: Just because this is a Muslim forum, that does not mean that we are spokespeople for Al Qaeda or that we support everything that they do

Can anybody here tell me exactly what the 'Muslim World' sees as its goals and demands?

As I've mentioned before, the Muslim community is a very diverse one so different sections of the "Muslim World" would be after different things. The vast majority of Muslim citizens of Muslim countries are frustrated by the fact that their rulers may have brown faces and names like "Mohammed" or "Abdullah" but in reality are little more than lap dogs to whatever America demands of them (be it cheap oil or subjugation of the masses disguised as 'reform' or 'bringing democracy'). This is why there is a huge chasm of difference between what the likes of Musharaf/Nuri AlMaliki say and what the majority of Muslims want. The vast majority of Muslims want Western nations to butt out of the affairs of the Muslim world and stop shoving their ideological hegemony down our throats. This problem of Western interference has been going on for decades if not centuries though I'm assuming from your line of questioning that this is something you've not been made aware of.

i was tempted to be abusive and just leave a stupid message but then it occured to me it would be worth asking what price I as an Englishman might have to pay.

I don't understand the question. Pay for what? Why do you say as an Englishman? Muslims are not a race, thousands of Muslims in the UK are English, so what's your point?


Lets assume for the purposes of this conversation that your bombs pay off

Whose bombs? My bombs? I don't have any bombs- nor did I ever have the ignorance/bigotry in the 1990s to blame all Irish people for IRA bombings with stupid terminology like "your bombs". That's a poor analogy considering that there is ample evidence that 9/11 occurred with the collusion of the US government in which case, I could copy your style and ask whether "YOUR bombs" paid off in that instance?

and the leaders of the western world meet and decide to contact Al Quaida with a view to talks....what would their demands be?

That's the other issue; Al Qaeda are Muslim but do not represent the 'Muslim world'.

What exactly is it you want in return for a halt to the terrorism?


What I want is for Western nations to stop interfering with the Muslim world but as I'm not responsible for 'terrorism', maybe you should ask the CIA, they trained Osama and the Taliban in the first place.

Do you seriously think there won't be an uprising within that country and the end result will be a right-wing government that will ban the Muslim faith and deport anybody they deem unsuitable which will basically be everyone from Pakistan.


For a start that would be unlikely because the staunchest right wingers who call for deportation are unpopular in mainstream politics because their prejudice isn't just against Muslims, it's basically against all minority groups. If they deported anyone they disliked the country would be empty and not only most industries but the NHS in particular would stop functioning altogether. As a compromise solution, Western nations are instead appealing to the mainstream by adopting a harder stance on immigration and are veering away from the old 'multiculturalism' concepts and towards this 'integration' stuff which they probably thought they could do more effectively with Muslims living in a non Muslim country rather than run the risk of people returning to Muslim lands where there is an increasing risk of radicalisation and besides- they can't deport English Muslims.


My question is, do you see the advancement of the right-wing in Britain as a good thing

Hmm, I think you'd be correct in assuming that such advancement would increase the so called radicalisation of Muslims in the UK but on the other hand, plans to hinder radicalisation at the moment are not working either. Allah (swt) is the best of planners;)


My question is, do you see the advancement of the right-wing in Britain as a good thing for your brothers campaign or a bad thing,

If by 'brothers' you mean Al Qaeda, such advancement would help their agenda


does it play into the hands of your plans?


My perspective (or 'plans' as you call it) are not one and the same as Al Qaedas and the advancement of the right wing in Europe makes little or no difference to my life. I read the BBC report which you pasted afterwards regarding the Muslim Clowns of Britain and can safely assume that the advancement of the right wing would alienate the likes of them. No one else is scared of them. If you find some of the points in this post somewhat far fetched or unbelievable because it is different to the garbage you're used to hearing in the mainstream media, feel free to ask people on here for proof to substantiate or verify the various things that have been alleged. I hope that clarifies things for you.

One other thing that you need to know is that by Western standards, the most "integrated" and Westernised Muslims were the Bosnians. A large proportion of them lived their lives so much like non Muslims that it was difficult to differentiate between Muslim and non Muslim families there. In spite of that, they were slaughtered by the people they grew up with and attended schools with for no other reason than that they were Muslim. The 'Muslim world' witnessed this and the majority learned that there can be no benefit derived from compromising Islam to make living in non Muslim countries easier. That is why Muslims do not like this whole 'integration' thing going on.

[official]

Perhaps you need to educate yourself a bit before making any stupid and silly remarks

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc7.html

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5948263607579389947


If you really interested we can take you through the rational proof that Allah does exit, Mohammed (SAW) is the messenger of Allah, the Quran is the speech of Allah and that Islam is the only ideology that fit to govern man relationships.

But to be honest I have my doubts about you the why trying to make fun about our beloved prophet NAME speak volume about your intention.

Try to think outside the norm and see things as they are not as the western media brain wash you with, only then if you are really looking for the truth you will find it.

My question to you now what if you discover tomorrow beyond doubt the likes of you MI5, CIA ext plotting this kind of operations, what would you do then?

[admin1]

Any users with usernames insulting Islam, the Prophets or any then else related will be banned and they will need to re-register.

[Peregrine_Falcon]

moo-ham-head
Astaghfirullah. I didn't realise what that meant.

Anyway its all cheap-shots. The West need to produce something more substantial than these people if they are to win an ideological war with Islam...

[abujamal]

I think guys like this are actually useful as they show their true hatred for Islam which others will conceal.

As Allah says, what they conceal in their chests is far worse than what they utter with their mouths. So its not that we should be suprised but rather show Muslims as this being the True face of the Kaffir.

[official]

Anyway its all cheap-shots. The West need to produce something more substantial than these people if they are to win an ideological war with Islam...

They can’t and they will not win the ideological war with Islam, if they to do so they will be cut to pieces.

I believe the ideological war will be won hands down.

[neelu]

Is it possible for the admins to blank out or change the username themselves? It's just that I think it would be useful to keep this thread and perhaps move it to the "dawah to non Muslims" section. The questions show clearly how misguided and superficial he/she was but that mentality is very common among the Kufaar so perhaps it's worth keeping the posts here for other Kufaar visitors to refer to.