"The Retreat"

[Fizza]

salaam

did anyone see the programme?

It was just the promotion of "Spiritual Islam"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/noise/?id=the_retreat

wsalam

[zangi]

It was full of Bidah and not Islamic at all. There is no evidence for this trying to fly in the sky.

[Killer_T]

i think this program is deliberate promotion of an islam that the kuffar can accept and agree with.

[zangi]

there was a very similar programme few years ago it was called " The heart of Islam" ie sufie's and it had all the rubbish we saw on the programme.

What i tend to find and i may be wrong but the people who practise this bidah tend to be white Middle class English reverts. I have met a few of these reverts and they are after this emotional high spiritual feel.

[neelu]

I think that's a bit of a simplistic genearlisation zangi. Most "bidatis" I know are from the sub continent and white reverts are very varied; quite a lot are with the former Muhajiroun lot (so called saved sect) and the so called salafis as well. Just ask broman2...

[zangi]

A lot of bidah is from sub continent, but like i have said you do find a great deal of Sufies are white middle class reverts,the head of the sufi group in UK is a revert white (unfourtanetly i have forgotten his name) but i had some friends who were into flying and i found many white reverts doing their "huwa hoo","huwa hoo" They goto Morroco a lot to do their flying their shaiks are from Morroco. Once when i did discuss with them they said they wanted the ultimate spiritual feeling and they did not belive in politics etc,etc i am sure you know of them.

[Gabriel]

When we all stand before God to be judged it may turn out that the Sufi way of dedicating one's self to Him is a way He finds pleasing. In any case I would not care to dismiss any honest believer's perception of his relationship with the Divine as "rubbish".

[bystander]

Whats this business about flying?

[zangi]

sufies trying to fly when they do their so called "zikaar" in a room they switch the light's off and start chanting and after a while once they get into a frenzy they get up and start shaking their body shouting at the top of their voice jumping up and down, hence the reason i say flying.

[abdul-ali]

When we all stand before God to be judged it may turn out that the Sufi way of dedicating one's self to Him is a way He finds pleasing.
I think it would be wiser to find out before we get there (ie stand before Allah), in case it is displeasing to Him.

[Psychotic]

The sufis have started to be promoted for a while now by the west, as its an understanding of "islam" which suits the kuffar. When islam is confined to the house and ritual aspects the west are happy but as soon as it becomes a dawah, and the link to politics, the kuffar will try night and day to fight it, we saw this at the time of the prophet muhammed saw and we see it today.

naturally to try and secularise the muslims they needed to find people who advocate an understanding which seperated islam from life's affairs and guess who turns up.

There were glimpses of this on the other night and im sure therew will be more, about how people were unsure about the sufi understanding but it "opened their hearts and changed their life for ever" to show people this is what the true meaning of islam is and then say this is what islam is.
I wouldnt be suprised if the women who had mor=st reservations about what they were doing in the programme, ends up accepting it in one of the episodes which are to follow. How better to justify th rubbish.

Also Whenever someone presents an argument against it, she is seen as the bad one, for being arrogant and stubborn with "her understanding". bringing in difference of opinion , tolerence etc.

Watch out for the sufi council of britain, their party political broadcast has been aired!!!

[Gabriel]

[quote="abdul-aliI think it would be wiser to find out before we get there (ie stand before Allah), in case it is displeasing to Him.[/quote]

My understanding is that Muslim scholars have, for almost a thousand years, debated over whether Sufism is or is not a form of devotion pleasing to God. If the mind of God was completely clear to humans none of this would have occurred.
We are all apt to displease God in many ways, but living a life of prayerful devotion to Him, according to our consciences (i.e. our rigorously honest understanding of His expectations of us) is, I believe, not one of those ways.

[neelu]

LOL@ Flying!!! Zangi the way you describe the 'zikar' sessions, you may as well film it as the video for "praise you" by fatboyslim.

[zangi]

perhaps i could title it "fly me to the moon" it was a famous song by Bart Howard

[bystander]

Flying....

I think I know what you mean now....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2967095013036177959&q=muslim+rave

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=618545744089582463&q=SUFI%20ZIKR

[Gabriel]

The second video posted by Bystander is a religious practice heavily influenced by the Christian form of devotion practiced by the Crusaders of the second Crusade in the 12th century.
It was probably brought to the Muslims by prisoners captured from Saladin's army, at the time.
It was a practice common among the Christian Knights, particularly The Knights Templar; and was known as "Doing The Okey Cokey".

[neelu]

FANTASTIC! ROFL!!!!!!!!

[zangi]

what does "FANTASTIC! ROFL!!!!!!!!" mean ?

[ivk]

ROFL = Rolling On Floor Laughing

[bystander]

ROFL = Rolling On Floor Laughing

I suppose it isn't as bad as flying...

[zangi]

ROFL = Rolling On Floor Laughing you always learn something new i guess i am what you would call a Dinasour when it comes to 2 things , computers and txt.

As bystander says "I suppose it isn't as bad as flying" so tell me what is the abbreviation for flying ?

[Glorfindel]

The first series of this programme was in a Christian Monastary, and being led to believe that Islam also is as ludicrous as Christianity the programme makers thought that they could successfully transfer the idea with minimum effort to an Islamic setting. I think for the most part they have been successful in making Islam seem as ridiculous as all the other religions.

They have tried to prove that people do not need religion but they need spiritualism. What is spiritualism, why that diaphanous panacea that hovers above your head just out of reach that needs men of extraordinary spirit to help you reach it, men who will solve all your problems that have come about because of a lifetime of material gluttony and a perpetual guilt that is derived from having no time for church/mosque/synagogue and such - que the sufis.

This is week 2 and thankfully there is only one more programme and throughout I have been looking for spiritual nourishment of some kind - but the idea of having a fit whilst chanting seems,to me, absurd and I do not think that a nourishment of any kind, spiritual or otherwise, could be derived from such gymnastics.

The only person in there that seemed to have their heads on straight was Aisha, the girl who refused to partake in the chanting. The head priest of the place said that the brand of Islam that Aisha followed was formulaic, rigid and dry and yet he did not cast that same accusatory glance at what he was doing in his retreat also - isn't chanting dry and formulaic too? Curiosly he said in the first programme that he forsees great difficulties with her (Aisha) since what she follows is at odds with what he follows - and yet the non-believers do not present a problem. No attempts were made at all to make any kind of introduction with the tenets of faith with the non-believing persons in the group, the agnostic chap when asked about simple basic questions about the existence of a supreme being he is not faced with the insurmountable truth of Allah's existence instead he is met with a non-pluss almost gaulloise shrug of the shoulders and told to participate even though he doesn't believe.

What is the point of this programme (and this post also)? Well here is what I think:

Simply put it is trying to show the ignorant and the sinful that there is a place for them. It would seem that people who have some knowledge about Islam and those who practise it also, are repulsed by what they see as an unneccessary pointless sojourn into territories that are uncharted and have been left uncharted for a reason - because they don't go anywhere. You will find that the ignorant and sinful (heck even the non-believers) have found it very easy to fit into this new and fantastic Islamic Monastary. This place is for the battered and bruised, not for those who actually want answers, the people who went there wanted to have some kind of guidance and direction, some kind of affirmation that everything is going to be alright - they could have just as easily found that at a local synagogue or church.

For me, it is quite simple to be spiritual is not to be an ascetic, it is not to become an anachronism and wear long flowing robes and douse myself in perfumes and scented oils, it is not about praying in the mosque until I become agrophobic, it is not about rejecting technology and spending time with nature and it is certainly not about chanting the names of Allah in something akin to a sing-a-long - spiritualism and being spiritual is to be aware of the link between the creator and his creation. end of.

Plus I thought the first series of the this programme was far better then this tripe.

[Glorfindel]

admin remove. repeated post.

[mature]

Britney Spears might be interested in such gymnastics

[abuYasir]

Well done for posting it under 'War On Islam'.
The worst statement was from Abdullah when he made a damning statement about removing all thought from ones approach to Allah. This is anathema to Islam's attitude where thought is the underpinning of all matters relating to creed. What an appalling stance, what an appalling programme!

[neelu]

If we removed all thought, we'd be no better than either the stars or the singers of that first video bystander posted LOOOOOOOL!