Sufism

[al-muwahhid]

Salaam All,

As you may be aware the kuffar are always using certain Islamic groups and "Scholars" to fight this war against Islam.

Recently there has been much talk of Sufi oriented scholars and those that claim to be decendants of the Prophet (saw) or Classical Scholars. Examples are as follows:

Shaykh Muhammad bin Yahya Al-Husayni Al-Ninowy - http://www.almadinamasjid.org/Shaykh%20Muhammad%20bin%20Yahya%20Biography.htm

Shaikh Nuh Ha Mim Keller -
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/default.htm

Abu Bakr as-Sudani

Shaykh Fakhruddin Owaisi from the family of Sayyidin Owaisi al-Qarani (Radiyallahu Anhu)

Watch out for these guys... they could be the next Tariq Ramadan...

Please post articles etc to challenge sufism on this thread.

[tufayl]

As you may be aware the kuffar are always using certain Islamic groups and "Scholars" to fight this war against Islam.

Recently there has been much talk of Sufi oriented scholars and those that claim to be decendants of the Prophet (saw) or Classical Scholars. Examples are as follows:

as-salaamu `alaykum

so my dear brother. how are the kuffar using these "scholars" as you say, to fight this war on islam? please provide your proof for each one you mentioned.

Please post articles etc to challenge sufism on this thread.

that would mean post articles to challenge the likes of imam al-ghazali, imam al-nawawi, in hajar..... the list is endless of scholars who wrote and practised tasawwuf. even ibn taymiyya wrote a chapted on tasawwuf, and he was only against the actions of certain sufi groups who trangressed the shari'a.

[al-muwahhid]

Salaam Tufayl,

First of all if you are not already aware about western foreign policy then please take some time and read the documents from the thinktanks who influence this foreign policy.

This document from the Nixon Centre discusses Sufism and how it can play a role in US foreign policy:
www.nixoncenter.org/publications/monographs/Sufism.pdf

Here's another report from the Hudson institute in which Naqshbandi Sufi scholar Shakyh Kabani gives his view on combatting "radical islam":
http://www.futureofmuslimworld.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=beyond_islam

This is a report from the The RAND organisation analyses the different groups within Islam and how one group is supported to further the western agenda of reforming Islam:
http://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1716/
(Read chapter 2)

Regards your second point about Sufism itself. Some simple questions:
What is your definition of Sufism? (I'm not talking about reciting dhikr mentioned in hadith when talking about sufism, i'm talking about the complete seperation of the "worldly life" to the "spiritual")

Is this from the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw)?
Was the Prophet (saw) a Sufi?
Where does sufism / tasawwaf originate from?
Is it purely from Islam or from other philosophies?

[tufayl]

as-salaamu `alaykum

please dont be like your ht brethren and dodge the questions by asking another million questions...

in case you misread:

where is the PROOF that the kuffar are using the SCHOLARS YOU MENTIONED in pushing their war on islam?

..secondly, your statement 'please post against sufism.." demands that YOU tell me what it is, not me.

all i said was imam al-ghazali, nawawi and taqiuddin an-nabhani's supposed grandfather, the great shaykh yusuf an-nabhani wrote and practised tasawwuf...

you made the statements - you explain them

[al-muwahhid]

Salaam,

The scholars I mentioned in the post aren't mention in the western documents directly. The one's that are mentioned include Hamza Yusuf, Shuib Webb, and Tariq Ramadhan, see:

http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/paper/index.php?article=2307

This roadshow is sponsored by the Government to tackle "extremism" (by the western definition). The scholars I quoted above belong to this group of sufi type scholars. If you read any of the links I pasted above you will find the western agenda for supporting these "traditionalist/sufi" scholars.

Also read this regarding the project "contest" proposed by the British Govt:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jun2004/musl-j03.shtml

The word “Sufism” was not known at the time of the Messenger or the Sahaabah or the Taabi’een. It arose at the time when a group of ascetics who wore wool (“soof”) emerged, and this name was given to them. It was also said that the name was taken from the word “soofiya” (“sophia”) which means “wisdom” in Greek. The word is not derived from al-safa’ (“purity”) as some of them claim, because the adjective derived from safa’ is safaa’i, not soofi (sufi). The emergence of this new name and the group to whom it is applied exacerbated the divisions among Muslims.

Sufism has influences from pre-Islamic and non-Islamic sources and schools of mysticism and philosophy. Some of these new perspectives originate from the synthesis of Persian civilization with Islam, an emphasis on spiritual aspects of Islam as a reaction against the prevailing impersonal, formal and hypocritical practice of religion, and possibly the incorporation of ideas and practices from other mystic systems such as Gnosticism and Hinduism into Islam. The evidence in support of non-Islamic influences in formation of Sufism includes the existence of similarities between Sufism and mystic systems outside Islam.

The central concept in Sufism is love. Dervishes, the name given to initiates of sufi orders, believe that love is a projection of the essence of God to the universe.They believe that God desires to recognize beauty, and as if one looks at a mirror to see oneself, God looks at himself within the dynamics of nature.

The Sufis worship others than Allaah, such as Prophets and “awliya’” [“saints”], living or dead. They say, “Yaa Jeelaani”, “Yaa Rifaa’i” [calling on their awliya’], or “O Messenger of Allaah, help and save” or “O Messenger of Allaah, our dependence is on you”, etc.

The Sufis believe that there are abdaal, aqtaab and awliya’ (kinds of “saints”) to whom Allaah has given the power to run the affairs of the universe.

Some Sufis believe in wahdat al-wujood (unity of existence). They do not have the idea of a Creator and His creation, instead they say that everything is creation and everything is god.

The Sufis advocate extreme asceticism in this life and do not believe in taking the necessary means from this world. The Sufis refer the idea of ihsaan to their shaykhs and tell their followers to have a picture of their shaykh in mind when they remember Allaah and even when they are praying.

Moreover, you see some of them making dhikr by only pronouncing the Name of Allaah, saying, “Allaah, Allaah, Allaah.” This is bid’ah and has no meaning in Islam. They even go to the extreme of saying, “Ah, ah” or “Hu, Hu.”

The Sufis celebrate the Mawlid which is a pure innovation. Did the Prophet (saw) celebrate his birthday? Did Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, the four imaams or anyone else celebrate his birthday?

The Sufis travel to visit graves and seek blessings from their occupants.

If you disagree with any of the above please bring your side of the story please and correct any of my mistakes, Inshallah.

w/s

[tufayl]

Salaam,

The scholars I mentioned in the post aren't mention in the western documents directly.

what do you mean 'directly', brother? they are not mentioned full stop!!!

this is absurd! well done. you answered my question. now look back at your first posting and reflect on what you wrote dear brother..

This roadshow is sponsored by the Government to tackle "extremism" (by the western definition). The scholars I quoted above belong to this group of sufi type scholars. If you read any of the links I pasted above you will find the western agenda for supporting these "traditionalist/sufi" scholars.

this is a very poor attempt to malign these scholars. you failed i'm afraid. anyone with an open mind would see that. the papers and links you posted are nothing to do with these scholars at all.

in fact, hamza yusuf is well aware of all these reports. so what?

that article on sufism you quoted is full of rubbish.

please don't be ignorant brother. at least have the decency and intellect to read the books of tasawwuf by imam nawawi, imam al-ghazali, and the great indo-pak imams such as mawlana zakariyya kandheli, mawlana ashraf ali thanawi. do not read simply read an article by someone who already has anti-sufi agenda and hence writes without knowledge.

the central concept is tasawwuf (sufism) is not love. there are thousands of definitions of tasawwuf. Shaykh Ahmad Zarruq said that one definition is sincerity in turning to Allah. others vroadly define it as purification of one's nafs - tazkiya, and ma'arifa.

imam nawawi and imam ghazali did not worship other than Allah from what i can see in their beautiful works. nor do i see that in sufi scholars i know of today.

there are awliya, and abdaal. as for their running of affairs - i don;t know where this came from. its utter rubbish again.

the sufis advocate zuhd. this is different from ascetism in the western sense.

there is so much nonsense here that i wonder how you could have posted your initial posting.

[al-muwahhid]

in fact, hamza yusuf is well aware of all these reports. so what?


So what does he say about it then? I haven't heard him comment on that they are incorrect and he has nothing to do with the government agenda.


the sufis advocate zuhd. this is different from ascetism in the western sense.


What is the definition of Zuhd?

What is your view on this sufi stuff directly from their website then:
http://www.nurmuhammad.com/NaqshbandiSecrets/miraclesofshahnaqshband.htm

Do you agree with the content on this sufi website?


there are thousands of definitions of tasawwuf. Shaykh Ahmad Zarruq said that one definition is sincerity in turning to Allah. others vroadly define it as purification of one's nafs - tazkiya, and ma'arifa.

OK so from these thousands of definitions on Sufism, are any of these definitions Shariah definitions based on Quran and Sunnah?

You haven't explained the basis for any of these actions undertaken by sufis:
1) Moreover, you see some of them making dhikr by only pronouncing the Name of Allaah, saying, “Allaah, Allaah, Allaah.” This is bid’ah and has no meaning in Islam. They even go to the extreme of saying, “Ah, ah” or “Hu, Hu.”

2) The Sufis celebrate the Mawlid which is a pure innovation. Did the Prophet (saw) celebrate his birthday? Did Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, the four imaams or anyone else celebrate his birthday?

3) The Sufis travel to visit graves and seek blessings from their occupants.

[tufayl]

brother, your arguments are getting thinner by the thread... you are slowly digressing off the original topic, and are now talking about certain sufi sects, and individuals, rather than sufism which is what you first mentioned.

you keep avoiding my responses and asking more questions, all of which i attempt to answer while you reply to nothing of mine. its the same old pattern with tahriris.

subhanallah brother. does he need to come out and say he has nothing to do with the government agenda? are you to believe the report of a kafir, when you have not verified it?

as for zuhd, this is what i was taught re: its meaning by a sufi scholar. it means to let go love of the dunya, to rid oneself of materialism and chasing after dunya affairs which don't help your akhira. this is not the same as hiding in a cave and not caring about muslims, as you wrongly assume it is from that pathetic excuse for an article. it doesn't even mean that one is not allowed to enjoy material things, it just means that you don't worship them; so that if for example you were to lose your mobile phone, you would not care about it so much and accept that this was your decree. now, if this is not the prophetic way, tell me what is?

dont give me websites akhi, i am telling you about sufism, and you need to defend what you say. i told you to read books of 'tasawwuf' by scholars such as ghazali and nawawi, even ahmad zarruq. or even yusuf al-nabhani.

as for basing a definition on qur'an and sunnah.. of course. sincerity in turning to Allah is from the hadith 'ad-deen an-nasiha..... to Allah, His Messenger etc', authentic, and also in the 40 hadith of nawawi.

in addition, the famous jibril hadith speaks of islam, iman and ihsan. this is also in nawawi's 40. the various interpretations of ihsan are also used as definitions of tasawwuf.

tasawwuf is none other purifiaction of the heart by drawing nearer to Allah. purification of the heart is tazkiyat al-nafs. this is in the qur'an, and tazkiya is mentioned in several verses.

as for question 1.. i will get back to you. but i don't personalyl know any sufis who do this - if you do, show me. if not, whats the point? are you going to believe an article which has already been shown to be full of lies?

mawlid - non-sufis celebrate the mawlid brother. there are many sunni scholars of have permitted it. and that means all year round, not on one specific day. you have no clue what the mawlid means by the sounds of it.

as for question 3, i dont know of sufis who do this. but if you are referring to visiting graves itself - this is permitted. if you are also talking about tawassul, then be clear. but only Allah provides and answers du'a. again, please give me proof of sufis who do this.

[tufayl]

...additonally, the whole issue of mawlid rests on the issues of bid'a and the concepts of bid'a hasana and bid'a dalala.

the scholars differed, but it is accepted principle in shari'a that if there is nothing which violates shari'a in a particulr action, then it cannot be deemed haram, as long as one does not believe it is wajib. imam al-shafi'i was also known to have mentioned the idea of good bid'a.

brother, i am interested in your background. forgive for sounding rude, but it really appears to me that you have a tunnel vision of islam, and thus your only exposure to islam has been through the literature of HT. please open you heart and mind... and don't be so ignorant. sorry to sound offensive, but this is quite clear from the nature of your posts.

[tufayl]

Salaam All,
As you may be aware the kuffar are always using certain Islamic groups and "Scholars" to fight this war against Islam.
Recently there has been much talk of Sufi oriented scholars and those that claim to be decendants of the Prophet (saw) or Classical Scholars. Examples are as follows:
Shaykh Muhammad bin Yahya Al-Husayni Al-Ninowy - http://www.almadinamasjid.org/Shaykh%20Muhammad%20bin%20Yahya%20Biography.htm
Shaikh Nuh Ha Mim Keller -
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/default.htm
Abu Bakr as-Sudani
Shaykh Fakhruddin Owaisi from the family of Sayyidin Owaisi al-Qarani (Radiyallahu Anhu)
Watch out for these guys... they could be the next Tariq Ramadan...
Please post articles etc to challenge sufism on this thread.

now... back to this posting... can you please answer my questions. or is this simply hearsay, rumour, lie or just blatant slander?

whatever it is, i think you need to choose your words carefully. you are accountable for what you write against these fellow muslim brothers.

[bystander]

Al-muwahid, face the questions being asked Insha'allah, and please don't dodge them, if your sincere in your discussion, then you will admit that you are wrong, if this is the case.

[mature]

Rather than arguing about the validity or invalidity of Sufism in Islam,it will be more fruitful if we discuss the practical meaning of these terms.If sufism is about developing sincerity as one brother mentioned,I guess he is referring to a process of developing Islamic nafsiyya(disposition).Unfortunately many brothers belittle of the importance of developing the nafsiyya because they feel great about talking about politics.This is not to say that political analysis is not worth.But,if someone has a sound political mentality without the elements of Islamic nafsiyya,he has a lot shortcomings.Name-calling,backbiting,sarcasm,rudeness are the results of neglecting nafsiyya. On the other hand,if someone develops nafsiyya and is unaware of political situations,he is likely to fall into the traps of the kuffar.Sincerity and good intentions does not help here.

In conclusion,we should differentiate the process of building the Islamic personality and reviving Islam.They are two different issues.Developing one's moral does not lead to the revival of the society.

[tufayl]

On the other hand,if someone develops nafsiyya and is unaware of political situations,he is likely to fall into the traps of the kuffar.Sincerity and good intentions does not help here.

sincerity in worship and good intentions help in every aspect of life. all actions are by intentions, and thus one's intentions must be pure and for the sake of Allah. an impure heart or nafs will do things for the wrong reason. an example would be the mujahid who fights for fame, or the imam who extends his recitation to show off.

In conclusion,we should differentiate the process of building the Islamic personality and reviving Islam.They are two different issues.Developing one's moral does not lead to the revival of the society.

we are digressing again.. because the purpose of the thread was not this.

however, i disagree with the above. building the islamic personality is essential to the revival of islam.

islam as defined by Gibril, alayhi salam and the prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, is comprised of iman, islam and ihsan.

broadly, we can define iman as composing the articles of faith, islam as the knowledge of fiqh and shari'a, and ihsan as sincerity in both, purifying ones outward and inward, and being sincere in one's actions. thus, a muslim must identify with all 3 aspects.

a society that is immoral and diseased with black hearts, cannot succeed because Allah has commanded us to purify ourselves.

"Allah will not change the condition of a people unless they change what is in their hearts/their own condition" [13:11]

this distiction you make is hizb ut-tahrir's. but the ulama of past and present do not make this separation.

[al-muwahhid]

Salaam,

First of all I would like to make sure you don't misunderstand me. The reason for my post was not to insult. I attended a talk by Muhammad bin Yahya about 7/7 etc in my local mosque. I was very impressed with the content of the talk up until the point he said that we shouldn't worry about the Muslims in Iraq or talk about them. We should think about ourselves and perfect ourselves. I raised a question and said that we as Muslims should be politically active and know about the our global situation and be concerned about the affairs of the entire ummah around the world and work to change our situation. He said they are political issues and he is not a politician and these are worldy affairs etc..

This really made me think so I started to investigate his background. So I came to the conclusion that the above scholars are carrying a particular message in their talks about intergration into britain and that politics is not part of Islam. That was the reason for my post.

With regards to my background it shouldn't be relevant, but originally i came into contact with YM (Ikhwani) when I was at school. Also visited Pakistan where I saw grave worshipping with my own eyes and spoke to those that advocated it. We can discuss this later inshallah. Was with Tablighee Jamaat when at Uni. I Left tablighee jaamat and started to attend talks by the above type sufi scholars and came into contact with Brelvis and also studied some brelvi books on Ahmed Raza Khan (ra). Currently i am also reading books by Salafi scholars and also HT. My brother I do have a very open mind when it comes to trying to seek the truth in order to please Allah swt.

I think we are getting very much off topic so lets narrow it down to my problem with the following from Shaykh Nuh Keller. I have discussed with some of his Mureeds but not had a satisfactory answer. Once we have discussed these and have come to some sort of conclusion, we can move onto the next issue I have inshallah.

If you can get a copy of this book "Tariqa Notes" by Nuh Keller and refute each of my problems that would be beneficial inshallah.

Page 17: Keller says“Dhikrs other than, those of the Koran and Hadith, or by past sheikhs of the tariqa, such as wirds found in books, heard from other masters, and so forth, may be read once for the baraka, but not adopted for daily use without the permission of the sheikh. Whoever takes the Shadhili way will find those of the path of greater baraka.”

Comment:
1. How can any “Dhikrs other than, those of the Quran and Hadith,” be accepted or used!

2. While anyone can read the Dhikrs of the Quran and Hadith without restrictions, special permission is necessary for reciting the innovated Dhikr of sheikh.

3. Show us from the Quran or Hadith, evidence for the necessity of a sheikh’s permission to recite certain Dhikr.

4. Who gave the Sheikh this authority?

To be fair, he also said in page 17: “The greatest wird, our sheikh tirelessly emphasizes, is perfecting one’s prescribed prayer.”

Page 51:

Regarding the rules of behavior, under the title (The Adab of the Tariqa), Keller said the following:

“To listen to what he says [of anything permissible] and carry it out to the best of one’s ability, even if (one holds) the contrary opinion.”

Comment:
1. Why are we always asked to suspend our intellect!
2. Was mans knowledge and intellect (the great gift of Allah SWT) meant to be suspended, as if we are farm animals, especially in matters of Deen which are most crucial.

Page 12:

Keller informs us that: “The following Dhikrs, listed in order of importance, are for those with the time, and one should only take only as much as one can perform regularly”.

From page 12 to 16 the following Dhikr are found in order of importance:

Hizb al-Bahr by Abul Hasan al-Shadhili

The Wadhifa by Ibn Mashis

Hizb al-Barr by Abul Hasan al-Shadhili

Hizb al-Nasr by Abul Mawhib al-Shadhili

La illaha Illa Llah

Surah Al-Waqia (no. 56)

The Latifiyya

Comment:
1. How does Keller know that these Dhikrs have this order, since neither they nor importance their importance is found in the Quran and the Sunnah.

2. Reciting Surah al-Waqia comes in the sixth place after many of the innovated (man made) Dhikrs.

3. Since one must “take only as much as one can perform” and yet follow the “order of importance” therefore clearly reciting Quran (Surah Al-Waqia) is lost under the ‘more important’ Dhikrs and due to time constraint will most probably not get recited by an individual.


Page 16:

Keller writes: “Particular divine names, however, such as (Ya Hayy, Ya Jabbar) and so forth, require special permission from the sheikh to recite, except in limited numbers of short duration. The reason is that each divine name carries a particular power, and the heart and the mind of the disciple may not be prepared to handle an overload of this power, just as an electrical appliance is designed to handle only a certain type of current.

This applies as well to the Supreme Name, (Allah,) which is only recited methodically by the disciple when the sheikh has put him through the Khalwa of (Dhikr in seclusion) under his strict supervision, after which the disciple may recite it as much as he wishes. It is noteworthy that only about 10 to 15 percent of those who take the Tariqa enter the khalwa, by no means all who ask, but only those the sheik’s spiritual intuition tell him can benefit from it, given their state, time, and readiness”

Comment:
Allah SWT has ordered us to call upon Him by His beautiful names. Allah the most high has said: “And the most beautiful names belong to Allah, so call on Him by them, and leave the company of those who belie or deny His names. They will be requited for what they used to do”. (Surah Al-A’raf 7:180)

In contradiction to this clear verse, Keller states that particular divine names require special permissions from the sheikh to recite. This is just another evidence that Sufism though claiming to follow the Quran and the Sunnah, have two fundamental problems:

Their primary source of knowledge is not the Quran nor is it the Sunnah. Keller can’t bring an evidence from any of these two sources to support his claim that a special permission is required for reciting particular names. Since there is no such an evidence, then where did he get this knowledge?

Page 3:

Keller mentions books to read before the khalwa and books to read after it.

Comment:
His claim that Shadhili Tariqa is based on the Quran and the Sunnah, so where is the evidence (from the Quran and/or the Sunnah) that that certain must books are read before and after a khalwa

Pages 7-8 :

Quotes a Sufi sheikh, Keller said: “Sheikh Abd al-Rahman emphasizes that the two strongest ones are dhikr, making remembrance of Allah, and mudharara, learning traditional spiritual knowledge of the din in its three pillars: Islam (Shari’a), Iman (‘aqida), and Ihsan (tariqa).”

Comment:
From where did Shaykh Keller and Shaykh Abd al-Rahman get the that Ihsan is the (tariqa). Tariqa, an Arabic word which tanslates as path/method.

Ihsan was mentioned in many Hadith the most famous among them is The hadith of Jibrael. In this Hadith, Angel Jibrael came in a human form and asked the prophet SAAWS about Islam, Iman, Ihsan and the sign of the Day of Judgment. Regarding Ihsan, the prophet SAAWS said that it is ‘to worship Allah as if you see Him, but if you do not see Him, then (know) that He sees you.’ This Hadith was recorded by Imam Muslim, Ahmad, an-Nasai, Abu Dawood and others. Imam an-Nawawi, As-Suyooti, and other scholars of Hadith have explained this Hadith and none of them interpreted Ihsan to mean the tariqa.

"tasawwuf is none other purifiaction of the heart by drawing nearer to Allah. purification of the heart is tazkiyat al-nafs. this is in the qur'an, and tazkiya is mentioned in several verses."
Could you please paste the verses for my benefit please.

With regards to your point on Zuhd I agree with all of it appart from what do you mean about this: to rid oneself of materialism and chasing after dunya affairs which don't help your akhira. What do you mean by dunya (worldy) affairs?

Mature: I agree generally agree with what you have said here:
If sufism is about developing sincerity as one brother mentioned,I guess he is referring to a process of developing Islamic nafsiyya(disposition).

Please forgive me if I have offended or insulted by the post, this is definitely not my intention to insult another muslim. Just to clarify my understanding. JZK.

[mature]

Assallam alaikum Br Tufayl

Your wrote:however, i disagree with the above. building the islamic personality is essential to the revival of islam.

Comment:I agree that both are obligations.Likewise salat and fasting are also obligations.But the salat is not the method of fasting.Buiding the personality does not directly lead to the revival of Islam.Building the personality and revival are two different processes.However,those spearheading the revival should possess the best of morals.

Regarding the verse : "Allah will not change the condition of a people unless they change what is in their hearts/their own condition" [13:11],we need to examine a few things:

1.Allah says 'Allah does not change the condition of a qawm'.The word qawm does not refer to a group of people.Rather it refers to a society.So we should ask:what is a society? Society consists of individuals,thoughts,emotions,and the system.

2.Therefore 'changing the condition of the people' means changing all the components of the society.
If Allah wanted individual reformation the word 'afraad' would be the accurate word for the situation.

[al-muwahhid]

Salaam Tufayl,

With regards to your questions:

as for question 1.. i will get back to you. but i don't personalyl know any sufis who do this - if you do, show me. if not, whats the point? are you going to believe an article which has already been shown to be full of lies?

Naqshbandhi-Brelwi sufis do this at my local mosque. Go to a dhikr session at your local brelwi mosque.

mawlid - non-sufis celebrate the mawlid brother. there are many sunni scholars of have permitted it. and that means all year round, not on one specific day. you have no clue what the mawlid means by the sounds of it.

Celebrating Mawlid is not haram, i agree. It is permissable. However, does it carry any reward? If it does carry reward then where is the evidence from Quran and Sunnah for this action of reward?? When was the first time it was celebrated, definitely no evidence for the first 3 best generations.

as for question 3, i dont know of sufis who do this. but if you are referring to visiting graves itself - this is permitted. if you are also talking about tawassul, then be clear. but only Allah provides and answers du'a. again, please give me proof of sufis who do this.

There is nothing wrong with visiting graves, making dua for the deceased. However, can you go to the grave and touch it and ask the Shaykh/Pir who has died to help you? Is it permissible to do sajdah towards it??? I have witneessed this with my own eyes in Pakistan and Naqshbandhi-brelwi sufi's argued with me there is nothing wrong with it. Many people I know have seen the same in Iran, Syria, Lebanon. In Pakistan it may be worse as the rituals that I saw was not much different to what you may see at a Hindu shrine.

[tufayl]

First of all I would like to make sure you don't misunderstand me. The reason for my post was not to insult. I attended a talk by Muhammad bin Yahya about 7/7 etc in my local mosque. I was very impressed with the content of the talk up until the point he said that we shouldn't worry about the Muslims in Iraq or talk about them. We should think about ourselves and perfect ourselves. I raised a question and said that we as Muslims should be politically active and know about the our global situation and be concerned about the affairs of the entire ummah around the world and work to change our situation. He said they are political issues and he is not a politician and these are worldy affairs etc..

This really made me think so I started to investigate his background. So I came to the conclusion that the above scholars are carrying a particular message in their talks about intergration into britain and that politics is not part of Islam. That was the reason for my post.

i have a lot to respond to, as well as the post from 'mature'. i will start with this above.

you probably misinterpreted the shaykh. i don't think he would want us not to worry about the muslims in iraq, nor even talk about them. this is not in accordance with what i have seen him say on the global concerns of the muslims myself. as to the specific issue of travelling to iraq to involve oneself in jihad - then i could imagine him saying this. he is right to not talk politics if he does not know.

as for siyasa not being part of islam; if you ask him again, i doubt he would say that. this is just pure assumption. there is no link between what he said and the accusation that the kuffar are using him.

i am surprised at your lack of awareness of mawlana zakariyya and his works, especially as you were tablighi. the deobandi's are big sufis, just like most if not all majot muslim communities in the history of islam.

before i discuss tariqa notes, can i ask you firstly, and be honest; do y ou have a copy of this? or have you quoted it from the internet - and f the latter, show me which site. it looks very familiar you see, and another cut and paste job.

by the way, find out who wrote 'bustan al-arifin' and what its about. also, ask someone (an alim) what imam suyuti had to say about sufism. then tell me about his and other ulama's interpretation of ihsan.

as for the verses - i will post them inshallah.

"What do you mean by dunya (worldy) affairs?"

...material needs.

i still think you made unnecessary accusations against all the scholars you mentioned in the original post.

as for merit in the mawlid... well - the prophet, sallallahu `alayhi stated that he fasted on mondays. why? because that was the day he was born - so he attached importance to the latter.

on the mawlid, which can take place anytime of year, the sira is discussed, hadith are related, dhikr is performed, salawat upon our nabi.. does this not constitute reward?

by the way, your 'beef' with certain scholars does not justify your anti-sufism stance.

[al-muwahhid]

Salaam Tufayl,

by the way, your 'beef' with certain scholars does not justify your anti-sufism stance.

I don't have personal "beef" as you put it with any of the scholars I mentioned. I do not judge their intentions, i'm sure they are sincere.

i still think you made unnecessary accusations against all the scholars you mentioned in the original post.

Secondly, I am not accusing of them collaborating with the kuffar. In my original post I said:

Watch out for these guys... they could be the next Tariq Ramadan...

I didn't accuse of them of anything. Although they may be sincere the kuffar could use them for their own ends as is the case with Hamza Yusuf, Shuib Webb and Tariq Ramadan currently. The links I posted to western thinktanks show how they intend to do this with these "traditionlist/sufi" oriented scholars. Every Islamic group (including HT) is the target of the kuffar to manipulate, use and infiltrate.

am surprised at your lack of awareness of mawlana zakariyya and his works, especially as you were tablighi.

I am aware of Maulana Zakaryah. Actually I agree with most things Deobandis say and do appart from a few things (which we can discuss in a seperate thread another time).

as for siyasa not being part of islam; if you ask him again, i doubt he would say that. this is just pure assumption. there is no link between what he said and the accusation that the kuffar are using him.

Inshallah I will discuss with him in more next time he is here but we had a good discussion that day and he made his point about not worrying about muslims in Iraq. I have had good discussions with Shaykh Muhammad on many topics, especially to do with the four sources of Islamic evidence. And also about celebrating Mawlid, he told me it is a bidah - why don't you ask him. He mentioned what you said we should do those actions everyday to remember the prophet. Which bring us nicely to the next point.

as for merit in the mawlid... well - the prophet, sallallahu `alayhi stated that he fasted on mondays. why? because that was the day he was born - so he attached importance to the latter.

That hadith is to do with FASTING on a monday. However, where is the evidence of celebrating his birthday on 12 Rabi-alawal. Which is what I am talking about when I say Mawlid. This is something that sufis do. I don't have a problem with dhikr etc. you mentioned.

"What do you mean by dunya (worldy) affairs?"

...material needs.

We have material needs, ie. We need to buy a house to live, or many houses for business. A car to drive to work. Need money to buy weapons for Jihad. Need money to print books for Dawah. Every human has a survival instinct which needs to be satisfied but the issue is how it is satisfied, not to supress/neglect it altogether. Islam allows us to become wealthy providing we do it by halal means and do not neglect our Islamic obligations, such as dawah, prayer etc...

[tufayl]

We have material needs, ie. We need to buy a house to live, or many houses for business. A car to drive to work. Need money to buy weapons for Jihad. Need money to print books for Dawah. Every human has a survival instinct which needs to be satisfied but the issue is how it is satisfied, not to supress/neglect it altogether. Islam allows us to become wealthy providing we do it by halal means and do not neglect our Islamic obligations, such as dawah, prayer etc...

yes, exactly. but chasing after them at the expense of other duties is not correct.

so, having fantasies about certain cars, and spending unnecessary amounts of money on cars for matters which are not really necessary. i was pretty clear in what i said re: zuhd. i didn't say it means we don't need things such as a car and house. islam permits us to be wealthy. but it does not permit us to worship anything in the dunya in a materialistic sense. having love of dunya is a blameworty trait. the qur'an is full of references to people's love of 'hayat ad-dunya'.

in any case, the articles presumption of what sufis say zuhd means is totally wrong. i have never read a book of tasawwuf which says the same as what that article wrote.

can u answer my question?

do you own a copy of tariqah notes?

i.e. can you tell me what is written on its other pages?

[tufayl]

Comment:I agree that both are obligations.Likewise salat and fasting are also obligations.But the salat is not the method of fasting.Buiding the personality does not directly lead to the revival of Islam.Building the personality and revival are two different processes.However,those spearheading the revival should possess the best of morals.[/mature]

the revival of muslims and the ummah cannot only depend upon certain aspects. muslims must be adhering to their deen in all aspects. as such, revival and the uplifting of the ummah can only take place if we please Allah. it cannot take place if we restrict ourselves to certain matters.

Regarding the verse : "Allah will not change the condition of a people unless they change what is in their hearts/their own condition" [13:11],we need to examine a few things:

[quote=mature]what is a society? Society consists of individuals,thoughts,emotions,and the system.

this is ht jargon. where is the proof from the qur'an and sunna that this constitutes society.

in anycase, thoughts, individuals and emotion fall under the rubric of the nafs don't they?

2.Therefore 'changing the condition of the people' means changing all the components of the society.

true. not just one. like i said. individual reformation is included it.

[al-muwahhid]

Salaam,

Ok I agree with what you have clarified on the zuhd. The sufi's in my locality didn't say that when I asked them but what you have stated makes sense according to Quran and Sunnah. Can you please let me know in which sufi book it is clarified in the way that you have clarified it.

With regards to Tariqa notes I have read it a while back, I have access to a copy from a Mureed of Shaykh Nuh Keller, which I have asked for again from him for this discussion. I will let you know as soon as I have it infront of me. Or even better if you know if there is a PDF version online, please paste the link here.
JZK

[tufayl]

as-salaamu alaykum

a bit of advice. don't discredit tasawwuf just because you perceive certain things in your locality.

secondly, don't quote from books which you don't have or haven't read and studied with a shaykh.

people tell you many things - its always best to refer to ulama in these matters. otherwise you are not in a position to comment.

as for verses telling us to purify ourselves - akhi they are plentiful. please read your mushaf. why do you think scholars such as ibn taymiyaa wrote a book called purification of the soul?

there are also verses telling us to purify our hearts... and tasawwuf is nothing but purification of one's heart from its spiritual diseases. two great books come to mind which can explain this to you:

'path to perfection' by mawlana thanawi

'matharat al-qulub' or 'purification of the heart' by shaykh hamza yusuf

i think this discussion is coming to an end. and i would like to add that tasawwuf has nothing to with a western agenda. most resistance fighters of the past were sufis. that is a fact. and the beauty is, they always tended to succeed and ultimately have victory.

i will leave with these words from Shaykh Nuh:

"Verily the self ever commands to do evil" (Qur'an 12:53).

If you do not believe it, consider the hadith related by Muslim in his Sahih, that:

The first person judged on Resurrection Day will be a man martyred in battle.

He will be brought forth, Allah will reacquaint him with His blessings upon him and the man will acknowledge them, whereupon Allah will say, "What have you done with them?" to which the man will respond, "I fought to the death for You."

Allah will reply, "You lie. You fought in order to be called a hero, and it has already been said." Then he will be sentenced and dragged away on his face and flung into the fire.

Then a man will be brought forward who learned Sacred Knowledge, taught it to others, and who recited the Qur'an. Allah will remind him of His gifts to him and the man will acknowledge them, and then Allah will say, "What have you done with them?" The man will answer, "I acquired Sacred Knowledge, taught it, and recited the Qur'an, for Your sake."

Allah will say, "You lie. You learned so as to be called a scholar, and read the Qur'an so as to be called a reciter, and it has already been said." Then the man will be sentenced and dragged away on his face to be flung into the fire.

Then a man will be brought forward whom Allah generously provided for, giving him various kinds of wealth, and Allah will recall to him the benefits given, and the man will acknowledge them, to which Allah will say, "And what have you done with them?" The man will answer, "I have not left a single kind of expenditure You love to see made, except that I have spent on it for Your sake."

Allah will say, "You lie. You did it so as to be called generous, and it has already been said." Then he will be sentenced and dragged away on his face to be flung into the fire (Sahih Muslim, 3.1514: hadith 1905).

We should not fool ourselves about this, because our fate depends on it: in our childhood, our parents taught us how to behave through praise or blame, and for most of us, this permeated and colored our whole motivation for doing things. But when childhood ends, and we come of age in Islam, the religion makes it clear to us, both by the above hadith and by the words of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) "The slightest bit of showing off in good works is as if worshipping others with Allah" that being motivated by what others think is no longer good enough, and that we must change our motives entirely, and henceforth be motivated by nothing but desire for Allah Himself. The Islamic revelation thus tells the Muslim that it is obligatory to break his habits of thinking and motivation, but it does not tell him how. For that, he must go to the scholars of these states, in accordance with the Qur'anic imperative,

"Ask those who know if you know not" (Qur'an 16:43),

There is no doubt that bringing about this change, purifying the Muslims by bringing them to spiritual sincerity, was one of the central duties of the Prophet Muhammad (Allah bless him and give him peace), for Allah says in the Surat Al ‘Imran of the Qur'an,

"Allah has truly blessed the believers, for He has sent them a messenger of themselves, who recites His signs to them and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom" (Qur'an 3:164),

which explicitly lists four tasks of the prophetic mission, the second of which, yuzakkihim means precisely to ‘purify them’ and has no other lexical sense. Now, it is plain that this teaching function cannot, as part of an eternal revelation, have ended with the passing of the first generation, a fact that Allah explictly confirms in His injunction in Surat Luqman,

"And follow the path of him who turns unto Me" (Qur'an 31:15).

These verses indicate the teaching and transformative role of those who convey the Islamic revelation to Muslims, and the choice of the word ittiba‘ in the second verse, which is more general, implies both keeping the company of and following the example of a teacher. This is why in the history of Tasawwuf, we find that though there were many methods and schools of thought, these two things never changed: keeping the company of a teacher, and following his example—in exactly the same way that the Sahaba were uplifted and purified by keeping the company of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and following his example.

And this is why the discipline of Tasawwuf has been preserved and transmitted by Tariqas or groups of students under a particular master. First, because this was the sunna of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) in his purifying function described by the Qur'an. Secondly, Islamic knowledge has never been transmitted by writings alone, but rather from ‘ulama to students. Thirdly, the nature of the knowledge in question is of hal or ‘state of being,’ not just knowing, and hence requires it be taken from a succession of living masters back to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), for the sheer range and number of the states of heart required by the revelation effectively make imitation of the personal example of a teacher the only effective means of transmission.

So far we have spoken about Tasawwuf in respect to Islam, as a Shari‘a science necessary to fully realize the Sacred Law in one’s life, to attain the states of the heart demanded by the Qur'an and hadith. This close connection between Shari‘a and Tasawwuf is expressed by the statement of Imam Malik, founder of the Maliki school, that "he who practices Tasawwuf without learning Sacred Law corrupts his faith, while he who learns Sacred Law without practicing Tasawwuf corrupts himself. Only he who combines the two proves true." This is why Tasawwuf was taught as part of the traditional curriculum in madrasas across the Muslim world from Malaysia to Morocco, why many of the greatest Shari‘a scholars of this Umma have been Sufis, and why until the end of the Islamic caliphate at the beginning of this century and the subsequent Western control and cultural dominance of Muslim lands, there were teachers of Tasawwuf in Islamic institutions of higher learning from Lucknow to Istanbul to Cairo.

Tasawwuf corrects such shortcomings by step-by-step increasing the Muslim’s certainty in Allah. The two central means of Tasawwuf in attaining the conviction demanded by ‘Aqida are mudhakara, or learning the traditional tenets of Islamic faith, and dhikr, deepening one’s certainty in them by remembrance of Allah. It is part of our faith that, in the words of the Qur'an in Surat al-Saffat,

"Allah has created you and what you do" (Qur'an 37:96);

yet for how many of us is this day to day experience? Because Tasawwuf remedies this and other shortcomings of Iman, by increasing the Muslim’s certainty through a systematic way of teaching and dhikr, it has traditionally been regarded as personally obligatory to this pillar of the religion also, and from the earliest centuries of Islam, has proved its worth.

The last question we will deal with tonight is: What about the bad Sufis we read about, who contravene the teachings of Islam?

The answer is that there are two meanings of Sufi: the first is "Anyone who considers himself a Sufi," which is the rule of thumb of orientalist historians of Sufism and popular writers, who would oppose the "Sufis" to the "Ulama." I think the Qur'anic verses and hadiths we have mentioned tonight about the scope and method of true Tasawwuf show why we must insist on the primacy of the definition of a Sufi as "a man of religious learning who applied what he knew, so Allah bequeathed him knowledge of what he did not know."

The very first thing a Sufi, as a man of religious learning knows is that the Shari‘a and ‘Aqida of Islam are above every human being. Whoever does not know this will never be a Sufi, except in the orientalist sense of the word—like someone standing in front of the stock exchange in an expensive suit with a briefcase to convince people he is a stockbroker. A real stockbroker is something else.

Because this distinction is ignored today by otherwise well-meaning Muslims, it is often forgotten that the ‘ulama who have criticized Sufis, such as Ibn al-Jawzi in his Talbis Iblis [The Devil’s deception], or Ibn Taymiya in places in his Fatawa, or Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jawziyya, were not criticizing Tasawwuf as an ancillary discipline to the Shari‘a. The proof of this is Ibn al-Jawzi’s five-volume Sifat al-safwa, which contains the biographies of the very same Sufis mentioned in al-Qushayri’s famous Tasawwuf manual al-Risala al-Qushayriyya. Ibn Taymiya considered himself a Sufi of the Qadiri order, and volumes ten and eleven of his thirty-seven-volume Majmu‘ al-fatawa are devoted to Tasawwuf. And Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jawziyya wrote his three-volume Madarij al-salikin, a detailed commentary on ‘Abdullah al-Ansari al-Harawi’s tract on the spiritual stations of the Sufi path, Manazil al-sa’irin. These works show that their authors’ criticisms were not directed at Tasawwuf as such, but rather at specific groups of their times, and they should be understood for what they are.

As in other Islamic sciences, mistakes historically did occur in Tasawwuf, most of them stemming from not recognizing the primacy of Shari‘a and ‘Aqida above all else. But these mistakes were not different in principle from, for example, the Isra’iliyyat (baseless tales of Bani Isra’il) that crept into tafsir literature, or the mawdu‘at (hadith forgeries) that crept into the hadith. These were not taken as proof that tafsir was bad, or hadith was deviance, but rather, in each discipline, the errors were identified and warned against by Imams of the field, because the Umma needed the rest. And such corrections are precisely what we find in books like Qushayri’s Risala,Ghazali’s Ihya’ and other works of Sufism.

For all of the reasons we have mentioned, Tasawwuf was accepted as an essential part of the Islamic religion by the ‘ulama of this Umma. The proof of this is all the famous scholars of Shari‘a sciences who had the higher education of Tasawwuf, among them Ibn ‘Abidin, al-Razi, Ahmad Sirhindi, Zakariyya al-Ansari, al-‘Izz ibn ‘Abd al-Salam, Ibn Daqiq al-‘Eid, Ibn Hajar al-Haytami, Shah Wali Allah, Ahmad Dardir, Ibrahim al-Bajuri, ‘Abd al-Ghani al-Nabulsi, Imam al-Nawawi, Taqi al-Din al-Subki, and al-Suyuti.

Among the Sufis who aided Islam with the sword as well as the pen, to quote Reliance of the Traveller, were:

such men as the Naqshbandi sheikh Shamil al-Daghestani, who fought a prolonged war against the Russians in the Caucasus in the nineteenth century; Sayyid Muhammad ‘Abdullah al-Somali, a sheikh of the Salihiyya order who led Muslims against the British and Italians in Somalia from 1899 to 1920; the Qadiri sheikh ‘Uthman ibn Fodi, who led jihad in Northern Nigeria from 1804 to 1808 to establish Islamic rule; the Qadiri sheikh ‘Abd al-Qadir al-Jaza’iri, who led the Algerians against the French from 1832 to 1847; the Darqawi faqir al-Hajj Muhammad al-Ahrash, who fought the French in Egypt in 1799; the Tijani sheikh al-Hajj ‘Umar Tal, who led Islamic Jihad in Guinea, Senegal, and Mali from 1852 to 1864; and the Qadiri sheikh Ma’ al-‘Aynayn al-Qalqami, who helped marshal Muslim resistance to the French in northern Mauritania and southern Morocco from 1905 to 1909.

Among the Sufis whose missionary work Islamized entire regions are such men as the founder of the Sanusiyya order, Muhammad ‘Ali Sanusi, whose efforts and jihad from 1807 to 1859 consolidated Islam as the religion of peoples from the Libyan Desert to sub-Saharan Africa; [and] the Shadhili sheikh Muhammad Ma‘ruf and Qadiri sheikh Uways al-Barawi, whose efforts spread Islam westward and inland from the East African Coast . . . . (Reliance of the Traveller,863).

It is plain from the examples of such men what kind of Muslims have been Sufis; namely, all kinds, right across the board—and that Tasawwuf did not prevent them from serving Islam in any way they could.

To summarize everything I have said tonight: In looking first at Tasawwuf and Shari‘a, we found that many Qur'anic verses and sahih hadiths oblige the Muslim to eliminate haram inner states as arrogance, envy, and fear of anyone besides Allah; and on the other hand, to acquire such obligatory inner states as mercy, love of one’s fellow Muslims, presence of mind in prayer, and love of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace). We found that these inward states could not be dealt with in books of fiqh, whose purpose is to specify the outward, quantifiable aspects of the Shari‘a. The knowledge of these states is nevertheless of the utmost importance to every Muslim, and this is why it was studied under the ‘ulama of Ihsan, the teachers of Tasawwuf, in all periods of Islamic history until the beginning of the present century.

We then turned to the level of Iman, and found that though the ‘Aqida of Muslims is that Allah alone has any effect in this world, keeping this in mind in everhday life is not a given of human consciousness, but rather a function of a Muslim’s yaqin, his certainty. And we found that Tasawwuf, as an ancillary discipline to ‘Aqida, emphasizes the systematic increase of this certainty through both mudhakara, ‘teaching tenets of faith’ and dhikr, ‘the remembrance of Allah,’ in accordance with the words of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) about Ihsan that "it is worship Allah as though you see Him."

Lastly, we found that accusations against Tasawwuf made by scholars such as Ibn al-Jawzi, and Ibn Taymiya were not directed against Tasawwuf in principle, but to specific groups and individuals in the times of these authors, the proof for which is the other books by the same authors that showed their understanding of Tasawwuf as a Shari‘a science.

To return to the starting point of my talk this evening, with the disappearance of traditional Islamic scholars from the Umma, two very different pictures of Tasawwuf emerge today. If we read books written after the dismantling of the traditional fabric of Islam by colonial powers in the last century, we find the big hoax: Islam without spirituality and Shari‘a without Tasawwuf. But if we read the classical works of Islamic scholarship, we learn that Tasawwuf has been a Shari‘a science like tafsir, hadith, or any other, throughout the history of Islam. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said,

"Truly, Allah does not look at your outward forms and wealth, but rather at your hearts and your works" (Sahih Muslim, 4.1389: hadith 2564).

And this is the brightest hope that Islam can offer a modern world darkened by materialism and nihilism: Islam as it truly is; the hope of eternal salvation through a religion of brotherhood and social and economic justice outwardly, and the direct experience of divine love and illumination inwardly."

...is there anything there you disagree with?

[tufayl]

as for the mawlid, the fact that the prophet didn't do a particular action, nor his sahabah, does not mean the action is forbidden, as is well-known as a principle in usul, unless there is clear text forbidding it.

the words of one shaykh:

"The celebration of the coming of Muhammad, upon him be peace, through revising his life story, recalling his noble character and outward form and encouraging each other to increase their love for him is called the maulid. Although the term, may be translated as the ‘birth of the Messenger’ it should not be confused with a ‘birthday celebration’. The
great jurist, Ibn Hajr, is of the opinion that gathering to celebrate the ‘birth’ of the once a year on the anniversary of his noble birth Messenger would be an innovation. The celebration of his existence should not be limited to one day. Those who use the maulid as a means of increasing their love of the Messenger, upon him be peace, do so as often
as they can. Their practice is based on the Quran and sunnah and far from being an innovation but was the practice of some of the greatest companions."

firstly, to know what the meaning of mawlid is. it does not mean a celebration every 12th rabi al-awwal. most if not all sufis i know hold mawlid gatherings all year round consisting of exactly what the author above has said takes place. it is intensified in rabi al-awwal.

in a sahih hadith, abu lahab's punishment in hell is lightened by a drop of water every monday, in light of the fact he freed a slave on the day the Messenger of Allah was born... and that is a kafir who is eternally in hell!

as for fasting on monday, rasul was asked why monday, to which he replied - "on it (monday), i was born..."

nobody has ever said the mawlid is wajib or fard. so you don't have to take part. just don't condemn those who do, especialyl when they do nothing wrong or against the shari'a.

[tufayl]

"Their practice is based on the Quran and sunnah and far from being an innovation but was the practice of some of the greatest companions."

as for this statement, ibn abbas wrote a poem on the birth of the prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam.

the birth of the prophet was therefore a noble occasion. and to recognise its significance as a day is indeed valid. as for birthday, the scholars of tasawwuf generally hold mawlid gatherings all year round.. even every week. how is this not praisworthy and not befitting of reward inshallah?

[tufayl]

...and also your statement

"watch out for these scholars..."

is just uncalled for. you cannot say such a thing with no proof.

[al-muwahhid]

Salaam,

secondly, don't quote from books which you don't have or haven't read and studied with a shaykh.

First of all I have read tariqa notes in the past and now I have a hardcopy here in front of me so we can clarify the points I stated above. Unfortunately Shaykh Nuh doesn't live in my town and I only have access to his mureeds. I think he will be visiting here soon so I will discuss directly inshallah but until then this is second best.

...and also your statement

"watch out for these scholars..."

is just uncalled for. you cannot say such a thing with no proof.

I believe I have already stated my position on this statement and provided links to thinktank documents which back this. I hope the scholars do not get used by the kuffar as stated in the documents. And hopefully they won't go down the same route as some currently.

[bystander#2]

May Allah bless you brother Tufayl and increase you in knowledge. By the way, Mawlid is very important... If Allah (swt) and His angels are sending salawaat on the Beloved Nabi as we speak and He commands us to do it, then who are we not to? Allah doesn't need us to send salawaat for His benefit, we were commanded to do it for our benefit. So keep sending salawaat on the Prophet (s.a.w.) - there is much reward in it insha Allah.
Also, br. al-muwahhid, may Allah open your heart and guide you on the straight path.

[al-muwahhid]

Salaam bystander,

I don't have any issue with sending prayers and blessings upon the Prophet (saw). This wasn't the point of my discussion with regards to celebrating the birth day of the Prophet (saw).

I agree there is reward in sending blessings upon the Prophet (saw), however, where is the evidence of celebrating on 12 rabi al awal. Also where is the evidence of carrying out marches through the streets and such activities on this day.

Also can you please first of all at least answer my issues of the book Shadili Tariqa notes by Shaykh Nuh.

[tufayl]

Also can you please first of all at least answer my issues of the book Shadili Tariqa notes by Shaykh Nuh.

inshallah. i will when i have time. its a long topic. but i haven't avoided the issue.

as for evidence, well, i don't think you are qualified to approve or disaprove evidence - that is for scholars. and many ulama have approved of the mawlid, which is an all-year round phenomenon.

[al-muwahhid]

as for evidence, well, i don't think you are qualified to approve or disaprove evidence - that is for scholars. and many ulama have approved of the mawlid, which is an all-year round phenomenon


Salaam brother,

I agree with the actions you described such as sending blessing upon our Prophet (saw) and the reward in them and carrying them out all-year round. This is not the issue. The issue is with making a special day of 12 rabi al awal and the evidence for that. So do you agree with marching on the street etc. on 12 rabi al awal?

[bystander]

Salaam bystander,

I don't have any issue with sending prayers and blessings upon the

For the record, i am bystander, the bro/sis who wrote the comment is bystander#2, no relation to me watsoeva, i dnt know who he/she is, clearly lacking creativity!..(jus kidin!)

[al-muwahhid]

Here's a sufi dhikr session for you to decide how Islamic these guys are:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=618545744089582463&q=SUFI%20ZIKR

[umm_suhayb]

Assalamu Alaikum,

As insane as that is it's sadly not the craziest dhikr circle I've seen. Try swords in the head and chest, men with wild long hair etc.

[al-muwahhid]

In Saudi Arabia, a Resurgence of Sufism

I guess they need to start Isolating the Jihadi brothers (who mainly come from the Wahabi/Salafi school) by promoting Sufism.

In Saudi Arabia, a Resurgence of Sufism
Mystical Sect of Islam Finds Its Voice in More Tolerant Post-9/11 Era

By Faiza Saleh Ambah
Special to The Washington Post
Tuesday, May 2, 2006; A13



JIDDAH, Saudi Arabia -- A hush came over the crowd as the young man sitting cross-legged on the floor picked up the microphone and sang, a cappella, a poem about Islam's prophet Muhammad. His eyes shut tight, his head covered by an orange-and-white turban, he crooned with barely contained ardor of how the world rejoiced and lights filled the skies the day the prophet was born.

The men attending the mawlid -- a celebration of the birth and life of Muhammad -- sat on colorful rugs, rocking gently back and forth, while the women, on the upper floor watching via a large projection screen, passed around boxes of tissues and wiped tears from their eyes.

The centuries-old mawlid, a mainstay of the more spiritual and often mystic Sufi Islam, was until recently viewed as heretical and banned by Saudi Arabia's official religious establishment, the ultraconservative Wahhabis. But a new atmosphere of increased religious tolerance has spurred a resurgence of Sufism and brought the once-underground Sufis and their rituals out in the open.

Analysts and some Sufis partly credit reaction to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States for the atmosphere that has made the changes possible. When it was discovered that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi, the kingdom's strict Wahhabi doctrine -- which had banned all other sects and schools of thought -- came under intense scrutiny from inside and outside the country. The newfound tolerance Sufis have come to enjoy is perhaps one of the most concrete outcomes of that shift.

"This is one of the blessings of September 11. It put the brakes on the [Wahhabi] practice of takfir , excommunicating everyone who didn't exactly follow their creed," said Sayed Habib Adnan, a 33-year-old Sufi teacher. The government "realized that maybe enforcing one religious belief over all others was not such a good idea."

When Adnan moved to Saudi Arabia from his native Yemen four years ago, Sufi gatherings were often clandestine, sometimes held in orchards outside the city, or in basements and without microphones, for fear of drawing attention. "I couldn't wear this," he said, pointing to his turban. "Or this," he said, pulling at his white cotton overcoat. "Or I would be branded a Sufi. You couldn't even say the word 'Sufi.' It was something underground, dangerous, like talking about drugs."

Sufis here say they are not a separate sect or followers of a separate religion, but adherents to a way of life based on the Muslim concept of ihsan . Muhammad explained ihsan to the angel Gabriel as "worshiping God as if you see Him. Because if you don't see Him, He sees you." Another Sufi characteristic is a strong belief in the power of blessings from the prophet, his close relatives and his companions.

Sufism had previously been predominant in Hejaz, the western region of Saudi Arabia, which includes Muhammad's birthplace, Mecca; Medina, where he is buried; and the Red Sea port city of Jiddah. Muslims prayed often at shrines where the prophet's daughter Fatima, his wife Khadija and his companions were buried. Mawlids were public affairs with entire cities decked out in lights, and parades and festivities commemorating the prophet's birthday and his ascension to Jerusalem.

When the al-Saud family that would later come to rule Saudi Arabia took over Hejaz in the 1920s, the Wahhabis banned mawlids as a form of heresy and destroyed the historic shrines of Khadija, Fatima and the prophet's companions, fearing they would lead to idolatry and polytheism.

Wahhabis, crucial allies in the Saud conquest of the disparate regions that became Saudi Arabia in 1932, were awarded control of religious affairs.

Discrimination against Sufis, among others, intensified after armed Wahhabi extremists took over Mecca's Grand Mosque in 1979, demanding that a more puritanical form of Islam be applied in the country. Though the government quelled the uprising and executed its leaders, authorities were shaken by the incident, and lest other Wahhabis defy them, they allowed them more rein.

Soon after, extremist clerics issued a religious edict, or fatwa, declaring Sufi's spiritual leader, Muhammad Alawi Malki, a nonbeliever. He was removed from his teaching position, banned from giving lessons at the Grand Mosque, where both his father and grandfather had taught, and interrogated by the religious police and the Interior Ministry. After Malki was later attacked by a throng of radicals incensed at his presence in the mosque, he could pray there only under armed guard.

Meanwhile, thousands of cassettes and booklets circulated calling Sufis "grave-lovers" and dangerous infidels who had to be stopped before they made a comeback. Their salons were raided, and those caught with Sufi literature were often arrested or jailed.

The tide finally turned in 2003, with the new atmosphere that took hold following the Sept. 11 attacks, when the future King Abdullah, then the crown prince, held a series of meetings to acknowledge the country's diverse sects and schools of thought. One of the guests was Sufi leader Malki. When he died the following year, Abdullah and the powerful defense and interior ministers attended his funeral. The rehabilitation of his legacy was almost complete.

"We were then upgraded from infidels, to people who are ignorant and practicing their religion wrong," said Wasif Kabli, a 59-year-old businessman.

But many Sufis complain that despite outward appearances, Wahhabis continue to destroy shrines in and around their holy places, their salons continue to be raided and their literature is still banned.

Wahhabis and Sufis view Islam from opposite directions. To Wahhabis, who emerged from the kingdom's stark, harsh desert, a believer's relationship can be only directly with God. To them, Sufis' celebrations of the prophet's life smack of idolatry, and supplications to him, his relatives and companions appear to replace or bypass the link with God.

Sufis answer that the prophet celebrated his own birthday by fasting on Mondays, that he himself offered to intervene with God on behalf of Muslims and that he could often be found in the evenings at the grave sites of his wives and companions.

Last month, on the occasion of the prophet's birthday, a crowd of more than 1,000 gathered to celebrate at a private residence. Sufi books, cassettes and DVDs were selling out in one corner of the large garden where the event was held. Adnan, the Sufi teacher, was one of four speakers who addressed the crowd. He asked: Why are we Sufis always on the defensive? "Nobody asks [soccer] fans for religious proof that sanctifies their gatherings at the stadium because of their devotion to their team," he said. "How come we are always asked for an explanation of our devotion to our beloved prophet?"

Muhammad Jastaniya, a 20-year-old economics major and part of a new wave of young Saudis who have embraced Sufism, said what drew him was the focus on God.

On a recent moonlit evening, Jastaniya sipped sugary mint tea with his friends on rugs spread on the rooftop of a Zawiya, or lodge where Sufis go to meditate, chant or sit in on lessons. The words 'God' and 'Muhammad' were written in green neon lights, and Islam's 99 names for God were stenciled in black paint around the wall. "To be a Sufi is to clear your heart of everything but God," he explained. "The Islam we were taught here is like a body without a soul. Sufism is the soul. It's not an alternative religion -- it can contain all Muslims."

That thought seems to be taking hold, even in faraway corners.

Salman al-Odah, the country's most popular puritanical cleric, who was jailed in the 1990s for opposing the presence of U.S. troops in the kingdom, accepted an invitation to visit Sufi cleric Abdallah Fadaaq's mawlid and lesson last week. The scene at Fadaaq's house was an obvious sign of conciliation.

Al-Odah sat with his hands neatly folded in his lap, wearing a red-and-white checkered headdress and clear wraparound glasses and sporting the short scraggly beard that indicates a conservative. Fadaaq, who at 39 is emerging as the new symbol of Hejazi Sufism, wore the white turban, the white overcoat and shawl typical of Sufis, wooden prayer beads resting on his lap. "It's true that there are differences between the way people practice their faith in this country, and this is an indication that people are using their minds and thinking, which is a good thing," Fadaaq said. "But what we should concentrate on are the expanses that bring us together, like the prophet. We must take advantage of what we have in common."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/01/AR2006050101380_pf.html

[abujamal]

Western Policy makers have long seen the promotion of sufism as an antidote to the revival of the Ummah as a means of pacifying the Muslims and channelling their emotions through "song and dance" to reduce hostility to kufr and America and take away attention from the dogs who rule our lands, the necessity to overthrow them and establish the Islamic State and the need for Jihad.

The Saudi govt is obviously only too happy to execute the strategies of their masters. It also seems that its promotion is not restricted to Saudi. Even in the UK, FOSIS, the govt endorsed student body has adopted this sufism as a means to depoliticize the campuses.

i agree with some points that brother tufayl made regarding the sincerity of intention.

if society conditions you to take an action, then your action is not done for the sake of Allah.

likewise, if you work to establish khilafah because you feel compassion for human beings - then your survival instinct is driving you to take the action and it isn't for Allah.

sufi or no sufi - everyman should evaluate his intentions and take action for Allah's sake.

i also agree with the points made by others. politics is a part of Islam.

the people who try to supress Islam and our link with Allah will use whatever resource available. overtly or covertly.

Here's a sufi dhikr session for you to decide how Islamic these guys are:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=618545744089582463&q=SUFI%20ZIKR

how can overweight people preach zuhd to others?

[Deen]

From BBC website.

The government has backed a new body for Muslims which says not enough has been done to tackle extremism.
Politicians from the main parties welcomed the launch of the Sufi Muslim Council at Westminster in London.

The group's leaders say that it represents a silent majority frustrated with slow progress since the London bombings in July last year.

The move is being seen as a direct challenge to the leadership of Muslim communities in the UK.

The new organisation seeks to represent Sufi Muslims, a form of Islam which claims to cut across nationalities and ethnicities by focusing on purity of thought and deed.

Its leaders say this approach differs from a politicised presentation of Islam that presents Muslims as separate to other people, something considered to be a key element in radicalisation and extremism.

It is one of two major groups to have emerged since the London bombings offering different views to the dominant Muslim Council of Britain.


Ruth Kelly, Secretary of State for communities, attended the launch, saying that her department welcomed the new body saying she wanted to work with a broad range of groups.

"We need to always ask ourselves whether we are working with the right groups in the right way," she said.

"Organisations such as the Sufi Muslim Council are an important part of that work ... I welcome the council's core principles condemning terrorism in all its forms and its partnership approach to taking forward joint initiatives and activities."

Radicalisation

Crucially, the Westminster launch also included Conservative and Liberal Democrat politicians, along with Anglicans and members of the Jewish community.


Haras Rafiq, co-founder of the council, said the SMC had already formed a partnership with the British Muslim Forum (BMF), an organisation emerging as the representative of 300 mosques in the Midlands and northern England.

The BMF was recently at the centre of a deal that brought competing Muslim bodies together to develop a watchdog for standards in mosques.

'Silent majority'

Mr Rafiq said: "The prime minister and others have on many occasions rightly called for moderate Muslims to stand up and be counted.

"In response to this call, and following extensive consultations within the Muslim community, we have decided to establish the Sufi Muslim Council."

He added: "Sufis count among the vast silent majority of Britain's two million strong Muslim community.

"Up to now they have lacked an externally visible voice and the intent of forming this council is to provide just such a strong voice."

Mr Rafiq said the council would immediately seek to build alliances both inside and outside of the community "to combat the evil political ideology" caused by a vacuum of leadership.

He said: "There is an urgent need for the British Muslim community to engage in an internal debate to isolate the ideologies who falsely claim to represent Islam, to develop a strong field of moderate, intellectually astute, forward-thinking leaders and scholars who can promote the moderate values of civic society, engagement and diversity which characterize classical Islam."

'Groundwork needed'


The Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) remains the largest community body in the UK, saying its dealings with ministers speak on behalf of hundreds of affiliated groups.

But some Muslim figures, particularly among younger people in the large communities outside of London, believe that the MCB has not done enough to both combat extremism or to help tackle critical issues such as education and deprivation.

But Inayat Bunglawala, spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain, said that he doubted a new body could be launched with a press release and some political support in Parliament.

"The key factor is the support in the wider Muslim community," said Mr Bunglawala. "When we launched the MCB in 1997, it was only after three years of groundwork and careful consultations. The Muslim community is extremely diverse and we have worked hard to reflect that diversity, rather than seeking to represent just one strand of opinion.

"It's true that the MCB has had its critics, particularly the Board of Deputies of British Jews. But that is because we do not hide the concern of Muslims [over Israel and the Palestinians].

"The signals from the SMC talk of a so-called politicised Islam - well young Muslims are living an Islam which is quest for justice."

[abujamal]

Another Kaffir-backed organisation to fight Islam.

[chitchat]

although it is kuffar backed organisation to fight islam, it does not bother me, because i think in some respect there are sincere muslims who will not allow these groups to go un-checked. as soon as some pressure is applied on these groups to produce something from quran & sunna they will just crumble apart.

allah (swt) will protect his deen.

[jungle_sniper]

sufi or no sufi - everyman should evaluate his intentions and take action for Allah's sake.

short and sweet and to the point, jzk


how can overweight people preach zuhd to others?


haha, good point, a bit like an elderly chap trying to teach the youngsters how to party:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2967095013036177959&q=muslim+rave

[bystander]

They now have a website

http://www.sufimuslimcouncil.org/

and hey, theyv'e got Zeyno Baron's articles regarding HT under the extremism section...Theyv'e also got Muslim brotherhood there and the Wahabis.....Its endorsed by Khalid Mahmood....and the head is Sheikh Kabbani who likes to have a cup of tea and biscuits with Kaafir Karimov...http://archive.muslimuzbekistan.com/eng/ennews/2002/08/ennews08082002.html...so yeah, they heading the right way to ensure no one supports them....

The only positive thing to come from this site is that they've got a links page, so we know which websites to beware of....

[al-muwahhid]

Also these:

http://www.spiritthemag.com/
http://www.bmf.eu.com/

[al-muwahhid]

Here's a sufi dhikr session for you to decide how Islamic these guys are:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=618545744089582463&q=SUFI%20ZIKR

Also don't forget to add any specific info on the unislamic sufi practices to this thread:

http://www.hizbuttahrir.org.uk/postnuke/pn/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=199&start=30

[Deen]

It's surprising to see a sufi group delve into politics as sufi's are meant to be "isolationists" and anti-social when it comes to the dawah as they do not have an impact on society!

Here we have a sufi group entering politics which does not know what pleases Allah SWT or angers Him. One thing is for sure that any "Islamic political organisation" with a hidden agenda Allah SWT will expose them as if it were the law of the universe.

[umm_suhayb]

Great point! I can't count the number of times I've read a Sufi say in an article, "We don't believe in politics, that's worldly" (or some such thing).

From their site:
Struggle for Political and Financial Benefit: a False " Jihad"
Thus we see the likes of bin Laden, with there network of militants, working to destroy the governments around the world including Saudi Arabia. This contradicts the explicit teaching of Prophet Muhammad (saws) not to oppose a ruler as long as he does not prevent the performance of prayer--even if he commits injustice. Thus extremists use Islam when it suits them and likewise contravene it at their convenience.
The same applies to other organisations in other nations. Small militant movements arise, and then come against their government and the common people, stirring conflict. This happened previously in Egypt, Syria and Lebanon, and is currently happening in other Muslim nations as well as places such as the former Soviet Union. When different movements discover they share something in common--in terms of ideology, methodology or a common enemy--they begin to work together. However, once one of them begins to surpass another, conflict ensues and they fight among themselves.
This took place within the Palestinian movement in Lebanon, Jordan and Syria. Initiated as a movement to liberate the land, when it began to grow and acquire power, divergent interests within the broader movement began to clash. When the conflicts ultimately ignited, seventy different Palestinian organisations could be found fighting each other in their own camps using heavy artillery and surface-to-surface rockets.

So what, are we Christians now (as they say something similar and quote the Bible)? That excuse is what I hear from pro-Saudi Muslims and drives me bonkers because what about the ahadith about calling a ruler an oppresser, giving sincere advice to a ruler etc? It's amazing how different hadith can be sorted and displayed to suite one's desires while ignore the others.

[Adam]

>Sufi Muslim Council Exposed
>
>Monday, August 14, 2006
>The 'Neoconservative' Sufi Muslim Council
>
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>http://sufimuslimcouncil.blogspot.com/2006/08/neoconservative-sufi-muslim-council.html
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> Notify Blogger about objectionable content.
>What does this mean?
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>BlogThis!
>Sufi Muslim Council Exposed
>
>Monday, August 14, 2006
>The 'Neoconservative' Sufi Muslim Council
>
>The 'Neoconservative' Sufi Muslim Council
>
>Who and what is the "Sufi Muslim Council"? They seem to have emerged from nowhere – suddenly their spokesman is interviewed on Radio 4 and Newsnight and a Channel 4 documentary gives their views some weight. They have a new website and a new magazine. But hardly anyone knows who they are or what they stand for?
>
>We wanted to know the answer to these questions so we set about doing some basic research. We have uncovered very worrying links between this new council and the neocons in Washington. There are also links to some of the most brutal regimes in the world e.g. the Karimov regime in Uzbekistan. We have also unearthed allegations of dodgy business dealings and vote rigging.
>
>The Neocon Link
>
>Just take a look at the SMC website [www.sufimuslimcouncil.org] and the influence of the neocons in Washington becomes very clear. The majority of the content is written by neocons that criticise Islamic groups – 'Wahhabis', the Muslim Brotherhood, MCB, MAB, Hizb ut-Tahrir, Tablighi Jamaat and Jamaati Islami are some of the examples that come in for criticism. There are articles entitled "The Muslim Brotherhood's Conquest of Europe", "Hizb ut-Tahrir – Islam's Political Insurgency" and "Islamic Radicalism – Its Wahhabi roots and current representation".
>
>We found that one of the prominent authors on the SMC website, who also writes for the SMC magazine "Spirit", is Zeyno Baran (left) – a self confessed neocon who works for the ultra right wing Hudson Institute. She is close to the Uzbek regime and close to the oil and gas interests in Washington and Central Asia. She tirelessly does the bidding of the dictatorial regimes of Central Asia by playing down human rights abuses and encouraging western governments to enact draconian measures against Muslims. She has condemned Sheikh Qaradawi and the International Union of Muslim Scholars, amongst others. She says that Islam should play no role in politics and condemns even the mere mention of Islam in the Iraqi and Afghan constitutions.
>
> >From our enquiries it seems that for some time now, Baran has been trying to establish a neocon-friendly Muslim organisation in the UK. She has talked of the need to, "provide money and help create the political space for moderate Muslims to organize, publish, broadcast, and translate their work." We also uncovered evidence that she has also held meetings with government officials in the UK, urging them to ban the Muslim Brotherhood and Hizb ut-Tahrir and cease working with Muslim organisations that mix Islam with politics.
>
>What do real Sufis and local Muslim leaders say about the Sufi Muslim council?
>
>In a recent survey of Sufi Muslim Scholars and Imams in the UK none had heard about the SMC or its founders until its launch. Most found it very disturbing that there was no real evidence of real tassawuf in their organisation.
>
>The hard right neocon think tank the Nixon Center published a document by Zeyno Baran which encouraged using Sufism as a means to attack Islam.
>
>[http://www.nixoncenter.org/publications/monographs/Sufism.pdf]
>
>Similarly the RAND corporation in their paper Civil Democratic Islam talk of using one group of Muslims against another - Shia vs. Sunni; Sufi vs. Non Sufi. Divide and Rule.
>
>The Kabbani/Jack Straw link
>
>The SMC is closely linked to Shaykh Hisham Kabbani of the Islamic Supreme Council of America (ISCA). The SMC website and magazine are full of Kabbani's writings and Haras Rafiq has admitted that Kabbani is the spiritual leader of the SMC.
>
>On the 29th of April 2005, the head of the Islamic Supreme Council of America (ISCA), Shaykh Hisham Kabbani, met with the then UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw in Blackburn (right). The meeting was also attended by Haras Rafiq and Hedieh Mirahmadi, an apologist for the Uzbek regime and the founder of the neocon "Committee on the Present Danger". She is also a foreign policy analyst at the right-wing neocon think tank, the American Enterprise Institute.
>
>While Britain continued to arm Israel and occupy Iraq, Kabbani, thanked Straw for the role the UK played in the Middle East and said, “We are glad to see changes taking place in the political mechanisms in the Middle East. We hope to see an end to tyranny and we are happy to observe a strong upsurge in freedom of speech, freedom of belief and political openness in the region.”
>
>Most Muslim organisations in the USA, of all schools of thought, have strongly criticised ISCA for its close relationship with the US government and its strange theological positions, including outlandish claims that the late Princess Diana, Prince Charles and Hillary Clinton have all embraced Islam at the hands of the leaders of the ISCA.
>
>Igor Rotar, the Forum 18 News Service Correspondent in Central Asia, has noted that, "The Uzbek government supports close ties with the Islamic Supreme Council of America (ISCA), which embraces Naqshbandi followers in the USA, and plays up its supposed popularity in the Islamic world. Although the number of ISCA members is relatively small, Uzbek propaganda represents ISCA as being one of the most influential Muslim organisations in the United States."
>
>On January 7 1999, Kabbani infuriated the overwhelming majority of Muslims in the US when he gave a clandestine testimony to the State Department in which he claimed 80% of mosques and Muslims in the US were "extremists", Muslims pose a threat to the USA and the US government needs to act quickly and Israeli occupation is legitimate and should be accepted. Only those with State Department security clearance were allowed to attend the event. Following this meeting, all the major US Muslim organisations including CAIR, ISNA, ICNA, AMC, MPAC, AMA, ING, and IAP, issued a statement condemning the ISCA. In a later statement, Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, of the Zaytuna Institute, joined the above groups in their condemnation.
>
>Soon after the American invasion of Afghanistan, Kabbani had Iftar with George W Bush and US Secretary of State Colin Powell. There are also photos of meetings with Dick Cheney and Islam Karimov of Uzbekistan (below). The photo of George Bush with Sheikh Kabbani (above) has mysteriously disappeared from the ISCA website, but a trawl through internet archives unearthed it.
>
>
>Zeyno Baran has enjoyed a very close relationship with the ISCA. In particular she has had a close relationship with Hedieh Mirahmadi, Executive Director of ISCA, a "former top aide" to Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani and a former senior adviser to the US embassy in Kabul. In writing the Nixon Center monograph "Hizb ut-Tahrir: Islam's political insurgency", Baran acknowledges the "tremendous intellectual and personal support" given to her by Mirahmadi.
>
>
>
>Mirahmadi (left) is an apologist for one of the most repressive regimes on Earth. About a government that bans all dissent, represses religion and boils dissidents alive, Ms. Mirahmadi had this to say: "We were all grateful to experience for ourselves the spectacular growth of this new republic. We sincerely believe Uzbekistan will be a formidable contributor to Islamic tradition and culture for centuries to come. Their great history and scholarship will preserve the traditional Islamic teachings of our ancestors and deserves the support and acknowledgement of the American Muslim community." These were her words of praise for a viciously repressive government, uttered at the conclusion of her trip to Uzbekistan, where Mirahmadi was feted by the ruthless Uzbek dictator.
>
>Who is behind the SMC?
>
>There is very little publicly available information on the Islamic credentials of the Sufi Muslim Council. Unlike other Muslim groups from across the political spectrum, the leaders of the SMC are either underground or non-existent. Those who write for its magazine are unknown, other than those who work for neocon organisations in the US. Many of the articles in its magazine are just a "cut and paste" from ISCA publications. The most prominent person since its establishment is a guy called Haras Rafiq who originates from Rochdale in Lancashire.
>
>Some may have noticed that the previously unheard of Rafiq has suddenly been giving interviews, claiming to speak for the "silent majority" of Muslims in Britain.
>
>Haras Rafiq has said, "The prime minister and others have on many occasions rightly called for moderate Muslims to stand up and be counted. In response to this call, and following extensive consultations within the Muslim community, we have decided to establish the Sufi Muslim Council."
>
>In most of his interviews, Haras Rafiq, talks a lot about representing 'apolitical' Sufis. However, from our investigations, the majority of Sufis in the UK had never heard of him. In an interview on Radio 4, when asked who supported the SMC, he did however say that they were supported by the Board of Deputies of British Jews.
>
>We did find evidence of Haras Rafiq's involvement in Bridges TV UK, a company incorporated on 24th August 2004. Reports suggest that it was envisaged that this would be a "Muslim version of Sky One". They have been involved in a trademark dispute with Bridges Network in the US. Contrary to an agreement with Bridges Network, Rafiq registered Bridges TV UK as a trademark in the UK in March 2005. The US district court in New York ruled against Rafiq in January 2006 and granted a temporary restraining order. Soon after that ruling, Bridges Network UK Limited changed its name at Companies House to Crescent Network UK Limited. Rafiq is also listed at Companies House as being the Director and Secretary of the little known Bury based Communications 4 Business Limited.
>
>It is also noteworthy that the 'apolitical' Haras Rafiq also supported Labour Friends of Israel MP Lorna Fitzsimmons' re-election campaign in Rochdale in the 2005 general election.
>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/england/4452599.stm]
>
>Rafiq was also presented in Martin Bright's Channel 4 documentary "Who Speaks for British Muslims?" In that documentary, Bright and Rafiq, said that the majority of Muslims were Sufis and 'apolitical'. Not much evidence was brought to substantiate that contention, but it was clear that Bright wanted Western politicians to utilise 'apolitical' Sufis to soften condemnation of Western foreign policy.
>
>The other person who appears in a photo (right) with Haras Rafiq and the Labour Communities Secretary, Ruth Kelly, at the 'apolitical' SMC launch in Parliament is the staunch Blair supporter, Azhar Ali, a former Labour councillor in Lancashire. He stood for the Labour NEC elections in July 2006.
>
>The Labour party website makes no mention of Ali's new found interest in Sufism, merely stating, "Azhar has been a community activist since 1984 when he became NUS President at his local college, and a Labour party activist since the early 1990s. Azhar's politics have been shaped by living in a mill town in Lancashire hit hard by Thatcherite policies which led to urban and social decay." [http://www.labourhome.org/tag/Azhar%20Ali]
>
>Not surprisingly, no mention is made of allegations in the Guardian of vote rigging involving Ali: "The Guardian counted at least 96 [declarations of identity] which were witnessed by Mr Iqbal, and dozens which were witnessed by Azhar Ali, Labour's leader on the council. On behalf of both councillors, Mr Iqbal denied that this was improper practice."
>[http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardianpolitics/story/0,3605,800525,00.html]
>
>Speaking in Parliament, Lord Greaves, said, "I have a file of more than 100 cases in which we believe that either declarations or signatures—by either the witness or the voter—were forged. I have photocopies of them here. I do not understand why the police have not been able to deal with the evidence that we have provided."
>[http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200304/ldhansrd/vo040129/text/40129-36.htm]
>
>Conclusion
>
>We set out to discover who and what the SMC was about. We have uncovered very worrying links between this new council and the neocons in Washington, links to some of the most brutal regimes in the world and allegations of dodgy business dealings and vote rigging.
>
>The SMC state, "We appeal to UK based Muslim organisations to openly disclose their ties to foreign groups and movements."
>
>After this investigation, will they now disclose the full extent of their links to the neocons in Washington and Blair's new Labour? Or do they think the Muslims will be fooled by a Parliament launch, a magazine and the odd press release?
>
>We will continue to watch the SMC's every move and will continue to expose its links to the neocons in Washington.
>
>Sufi Muslim Council Exposed
>14th August 2006
>
>posted by Sufi at 4:54 PM

[bystander]

http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/paper/index.php?article=2563

From another shore - New Sufis for New Labour

By Shehla Khan

The House of Commons seems increasingly ready to serve as the launch pad for new Muslim organisations. Not long ago, it staged the debut of an organisation calling itself Progressive Muslims. After a barely decent interval, on July 19, it opened its portals once again to the latest organisational aspirant, namely the Sufi Muslim Council (SMC). The SMC’s launch was celebrated with due fanfare, in the form of nods, smiles, handshakes, and laudatory speeches from the assembled guests who included representatives of the leading political parties, the media, the Church and even the Board of Jewish Deputies. Meanwhile, greetings also poured in from absentee well wishers, including Nato and George Bush.

Some Muslims might feel intrigued at the choice of cheerleaders that the SMC has attracted; others, at the very usage of the generic term ‘sufi’ as designating a branded identity. Certainly, the sufi tradition in Islam is no stranger to organisation in the forms of guilds or tariqahs, many of which have a venerable history dating several centuries. In general, however, these orders professed a distinct identity acquired from their founder/shaykh or their place of origin. In contrast, there is anonymity about the SMC, which could be countered by the organisation’s renaming itself as House of Commons Sufis, Establishment Sufis or even Blairite Sufis. In the absence of clear identification, we are left with the impression that the ‘sufi’ logo functions here as at best as a garbled, and at worst as a disingenuous statement of political detachment.

However, the confusion about the SMC’s credentials need not be long enduring. While the relationship between Sufism and political power remains a complex subject, we could highlight three dominant tendencies. There is, firstly, a rejectionist stance in which politics is seen as corrupt and degrading, an obstacle to a life of piety, contemplation and prayer. Secondly, there is an activist stance, in which the social and pedagogic role of the tariqah does not exclude participating in resistance struggles against foreign invaders. Imam Shamil’s battles against the Russian Romanovs, Imam Abdul Qadir’s against the French in Algeria, the Sanussi orders against European colonialism in Africa all belong to this genre. Thirdly, there is a collaborationist stance in which Sufism becomes an elite phenomenon that finds expression primarily in cultural production, but is strongly supportive of militantly secular or Islamophobic states and regimes. Examples of this tendency are found in present day Turkey among the Mevlevi and Cerrahi sufi orders.

It is difficult to locate the SMC in the first two categories, far less so in the third. This becomes plausible if we turn briefly to the Council’s public statements. By its own admission, the SMC is the charmed organisation that we, the ‘silent majority’ have all been waiting for; here at last is a group protesting its apolitical stance, its promise to combat ‘extremism’, its disdain for the liberation struggles waged by Muslims around the world, its suspicion of Muslim charities reaching out to the most dispossessed amongst the ummah, its silent acquiescence in the wars of terror waged by the Bush-Blair clique. Here at last is an outfit which understands that the only language we, the majority of the silent, want to speak is Blair-speak with an Islamicate twist, Blair-speak being the local, Downing Street dialect of Bush-speak, the neo-conservative imperial language which seeks to become the lingua franca of the planet. This dialect, which answers to our deepest spiritual needs and aspirations, is the one that we are yearning to master as Afghanistan mourns, Lebanon wails, Baghdad screams, and Palestine howls.

All we need to do to equip ourselves with the new lingo is to engage in a simple re-translation exercise: so the slaughter of innocents means collateral damage, collective punishment means security, occupation means liberation, wire cages mean justice, depleted uranium means democracy, ceasefire means Eretz Israel, and Geneva Convention means dead letter. Having grasped these elementary linguistic rules, we are ready to abandon our silence and speak in our new found voices as Blairite Sufis or perhaps as Sufi Blairites.

So why do we hesitate?

Could it be because we are troubled by a sense of irony, that we cannot reconcile the fact that an organisation purporting to be apolitical seeks to ingratiate itself with the country’s political elite, selecting a parliamentary chamber for its kick-off? Could it be because we see an unhealthily close fit between the latest twist in the Islamophobic discourse circulating around media, government, and academic circles and the rise to fame of our Sufi brethren? In this twist, any political consciousness amongst Muslims becomes suspect so that the term ‘Islamist’ comes to acquire the opprobrium formerly associated with ‘fundamentalist’ or ‘terrorist’ and yesterday’s ‘moderates’ become today’s ‘extremists’. This is eminently demonstrated in Martin Bright’s recent contention that the Government, in engaging with associations such as the Muslim Council of Britain, which has yet to applaud its foreign policy, has capitulated to ‘fundamentalists’. Simply put, to be moderate, you need to stop being Muslim except as a leisure pursuit.

Could it be because we find precedents for the SMC in American sufi organisations that have been warmly endorsed by Bush, and by the likes of the Rand Corporation as active partners in the so-called ‘reformation of Islam’, a reformation in which Islam is stripped of its capacity to speak truth to power? Could it be because, the pressure that has been levied upon Muslims following 7/7 notwithstanding, we are still not ready to capitulate to the absurd Blairite claim that those tragic events had no link with British foreign policy? Above all, could it be that we are, after all, less than enthusiastic pupils for Blair-speke, that we are on the way to finding a different language to express our hopes and aspirations, our understanding of our history and our future, and this is the language of Islam as it speaks of Justice, of the duty to resist oppression, of the promise to live as Muslims in the fuller sense of the term?

But then, this is not a language that is spoken in a House of Commons in thrall to Blair’s imperial delusions.

Shehla Khan, Researcher, University of Manchester

[abujamal]

Here's Kabani with his masters:
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http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7940/3582/1600/hisham.jpg

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7940/3582/1600/kabbani234.jpg

[neelu]

I was talking to my aunty earlier today and she mentioned going to some conference or event where Hisham Kabbani gave this big speech. I was sure I heard his name before on here so did a search and found this thread and can give you an account of what she heard there. The hilarious irony is that this aunty is really not particularly religious or anything like that but even she was annoyed by him. She didn't have any preconceived ideas or know what to expect, she was invited by a friend and decided out of curiosity to attend.

She said the name of the event was called "united not divided" and placed an emphasis on Sufism. When Kabbani stood up to speak, all she could hear from him was a strong emphasis of "we are British, we are British" and she thought to herself "the British don't really think we're British so what are you talking about???". She also heard the word "Prevent" being mentioned a lot and suggested that it was some organisation that was involved in "preventing terrorism" and "deradicalising Muslims" or something along those lines. Whilst she accepted that generally us Muslims don't condone terrorism as we've seen what a mess it's created in places like Pakistan, she really didn't like this guy going too far in the opposite direction of pandering to the kufaar to the extent that he said things like "If people don't like the way things are in this country, then they can go back to Pakistan". She said no non Muslim has dared to say that to her face and instantly wondered "how much are they paying you?". She felt like saying "Well you're originally Lebanese but reside in America, how would you like it if someone told you to go back to Lebanon the moment you disapproved of something?"- I seriously wished she'd said that out loud.

Then she said the event was called "united not divided" but they were hardly calling for any form of unity beyond the Brelvi and Sufi crowd calling out "naaraae takbeer... Allahu Akbar.... then Ya Rasool... then Ya Ali", badmouthing "wahabis" then badmouthing Al Muhajiroun and Hizb ut Tahrir- so much for unity *rolls eyes* The thing that annoyed her the most was his twisting of the Quranic verse when he said "Muslims first should obey Allah (swt), then His Messenger (saw), then the people in authority" like it was an excuse to obey anyone in charge. She said the audience (a mixture of Brelvis, Sufis and some non Muslims) were clapping and applauding this rubbish. She told us herself that the verse is not about anyone put in charge, it's about the Ameer ul Momineen of an Islamic state who we would be obliged to obey and he would be obliged to implement Islam.

I thought: Mashallah! I was serious when I said this woman is not particularly religious so I don't know where she picked up that information from but it wasn't me so I can't take credit for it, but I guess it goes to show that information on these aspects of Islam is filtering through alhamdulilah. Anyway I thought you might find that interesting so decided to share that with you.

[Saifullah1924]

WHY IS THE KUFFAAR GIVING PLATFORMS TO THE SUFIS' ALL OVER THE COUNTRY? FROM THE REPORTS MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY IN THIS THREAD LIKE "RAND", IT IS VERY OBVIOUS THAT THE WEST IS HAPPY WITH THE SUFI VERSION OF ISLAM.

IS THE WEST AT WAR WITH ISLAM? NO DOUBT.
DO THE KUFFAAR WANT TO DO ANYTHING GOOD FOR ISLAM? ABSOLUTELY NOT. (ALLAH TELLS IN THE QURAN).

SO THE QUESTION IS, WHY IS THE WEST PROMOTING SUFISM? BECAUSE THIS IS NO THREAT TO THE THEIR WAY OF LIFE LIKE "ISLAM" IS!!!

JUST TO ADD AND SPEAKING ABOUT PLATFORMS, I RECENTLY DISCOVERED THAT "RADICAL MIDDLEWEAY (RMW)" [HAMZA YUSUF, TARIQ RAMADAN and Co] HAVE A ANDROID APPLICATION, WHICH CAN BE DOWNLOADED FROM THE ANDROID MARKET (HTC PHONES ETC). IT LIST NEWS FEEDS, EVENTS, VIDEOS ETC.