suppose

[abuyaqub]

Salam all,

Suppose an Islamic State was established, would that State allow bin Laden to come and live in the State and if the international community demanded that he be handed over will the State comply? If it doesn't comply will the state arrest him, because according some people on this forum he is an agent.

In an Islamic State how will the State deal with all the other Jamaats, bearing in mind that they cannot tolerate each others now, are they all going to be prosecuted, or exiled if they don't follow the 'pure thought'?

How about the 2 HTs, how are they going to live together or are they going to massacre each other in the name of 'pure thought'?

Will Abu Musa accept a leader appointed be the Abu Rami Jamaat, while considering them to be deviants?

Will Abu Rami Jamaat accept Abu Musa with his 'impure thoughts'?

[Abu_Hamza]

if the correct method is followed then when the victory is attained the Ummah's thoughts and emotions will be for Isalm. So the transistion from before and after State will be a natural processes.
with regards to other Jammats; by then the Ummah will recognise and will have given leadership to the Hizb. The others will be of no value...However the Kuffar will attempt to misguide the Ummah by setting up many groups like the PLO was in Palestine....but the Hizb will clear these issues for her.
with regards to other Muslims.... their life,honour and property will be protected, and no Muslim would be handed over to the Kuffs. However if a Muslim stays out of the State teroteries withoiut permission from the Khalif then......He's on his own!
Once the State is established then the Hizb would dissolve, as its duty has been completed! By then Rami will be no where as his group will be seen for what it is!
about Abu Musa you'll have to ask him!


WS

[Muslim]

Abu Hamza
"Once the State is established then the Hizb would dissolve, as its duty has been completed!"

I thought the group, ie the hizb, has to remain permanently even after the state has been established. The group enjoins the good and forbids the evil, wouldn't this duty continue for the hizb (aswell as others) even when we have khilafah?

[ivk]

The Hizb will remain but rather than work with the ummah to resume the islamic way of life and establish khilafah, it will perform different duties which will be deduced by the reality and shariah requirements of that time. No doubt responsibilities will include safeguarding the interests of the State.

[Peregrine_Falcon]

Once the State is established then the Hizb would dissolve, as its duty has been completed!
WS
Hizb will not dissolve - it will continue to call Muslims/non-Muslims to Islam, ensure Islam is implemented correctly, account/advise the State, work to maintain the revival of the Ummah, call Muslims to adopt what the party adopts etc ...


Suppose an Islamic State was established, would that State allow bin Laden to come and live in the State and if the international community demanded that he be handed over will the State comply? If it doesn't comply will the state arrest him, because according some people on this forum he is an agent.
All Muslims have the right to live under the authority of the State, as do other peoples. If a Muslim commits an action that the State adopts to be haram, then the individual would be punished - but only if that crime is committed under the authority of the State. With regards to handing individuals over to third countries - this depends on the any treaties the State has with these countries and what is necessitated by Jihad. As far as I am concerned I cannot see any situation where the State would hand over Bin Laden to a non-Islamic entity if he were to take up residency in the State.


In an Islamic State how will the State deal with all the other Jamaats, bearing in mind that they cannot tolerate each others now, are they all going to be prosecuted, or exiled if they don't follow the 'pure thought'?
Multiple jamaats/groups, as are opinions are permitted by Sharia - so the state cannot 'deal' with them. They will exist as they do now. However, the State will clamp down on anyone causing fitna. Criticising the State, other Muslim groups, calling Muslims to a weaker understanding of Islam - are not fitna. In order to siphon out the weak opinions all the State can and should do is encourage debate.

The State needs to adopt sufficiently in order to rule. It should not adopt in all areas of Islam. Thus it needs to encourage ijtihad and establishment of different groups and opinions. Otherwise, there is a danger of decline and stagnation amongst the Ummah.

The State will not be a HT State even though the party's aim is to take the leadership of the Ummah and lead them to sieze the authority. If the party succeeds in this, it will reserve the position of Khalif, Assistant and Amir al-Jihad for itself. But many if not all of the other positions within the structure will be held by ordinary Muslims, Muslims from other groups etc. the Majlis for example will definitely not be made up of Party members. Given all of this it will be difficult for the State to persecute individuals or other groups on a partisan basis.

[unity]

The reason hizb ut tahrir was established is not because of the absence of the khilafah, but because of the command of Allah (swt). Chapter 3, Verse 104 (sura: al-imran)

Abuyaqub, this is not the first ever Islamic state the ummah is working for, the issues you bring forth are sharia matters and therefore we (ummah) will resolve them according what pleases Allah most.

The first generations were not a problem free society; they also had problems and referred back to Allah and His messenger over their disputes.

[Abu_Hamza]

Abu Hamza
"Once the State is established then the Hizb would dissolve, as its duty has been completed!"

I thought the group, ie the hizb, has to remain permanently even after the state has been established. The group enjoins the good and forbids the evil, wouldn't this duty continue for the hizb (aswell as others) even when we have khilafah?

Aoa,

the reality will probably be that most of the members will be adsorbed into the admin of the state..but Hizb' would not be required as a liberation party.......i agree there will be another party insurring the Khair......traditionally this has been the Ulama and their schools

WS

[Peregrine_Falcon]

the reality will probably be that most of the members will be adsorbed into the admin of the state..but Hizb' would not be required as a liberation party.......i agree there will be another party insurring the Khair......traditionally this has been the Ulama and their schools

WS
Well, if you paid attention, you'd read that the party would not be absolved. Nor will the party members be absorded into the admin of the State. Party has already outlined this in a number of its literature.

Secondly, the party will work to ensure no such clerical structure takes root in the state, this it has placed as an article of the constitution; so this will be enforced by the State... so no 'ulema'!

[Abu_Hamza]

the reality will probably be that most of the members will be adsorbed into the admin of the state..but Hizb' would not be required as a liberation party.......i agree there will be another party insurring the Khair......traditionally this has been the Ulama and their schools

WS
Well, if you paid attention, you'd read that the party would not be absolved. Nor will the party members be absorded into the admin of the State. Party has already outlined this in a number of its literature.

Secondly, the party will work to ensure no such clerical structure takes root in the state, this it has placed as an article of the constitution; so this will be enforced by the State... so no 'ulema'!




i'm not aware of lit' that the party has issued to it's role after statehood, but there will always be group(s) calling to Khair...however wait and see!

[Abu-Musa]

The way I see it…

Everyone inshallah will have a role to play in the State.

Look at the Islamic State of Iraq for example. Where numerous groups came under a consultative body called the Mujahideen Shura Council, then formed the Islamic State of Iraq… with Ministers from previously different groups and an Amir who was not even from al-Qa’ida.

Similarly in Afghanistan, where al-Qaida’s leaders pledged alliegence to Mullah Umar, a Deobandi Hanafi.

So no one can really accuse the Mujahideen groups of not engaging with Muslims and Muslim Groups.

However we see other groups who ain’t prepared to co-operate with anyone else, and put their group, before the Deen, before a State, and before Unity.


So there will not be an issue on having a Khilafah based on the following in order to involve everyone(this is just a rough example)…

A exclusively Shari’ah-based Constitution. Based on the purity of the Aqeedah and Shari’ah principles of the first 3 generations of Islam, and it being reflected in every organ and department of the State.

Having a Majlis ash-Shura with around 3 elements to it… (1) Majlis al-Ulemah; consisting of renowned Sincere Scholars [i.e. with no track record of Taghut-Bootlicking], from Mujahideen groups, Political groups, Dawah/Tableegh groups etc. (2) Majlis of Experts in their Fields; consisting of experts who can deal with issues of material progress Scientific, Industrial, Economic, Agricultural etc. (3) Majlis of the Ummahs’ Representatives; directly representing the Ummahs’ interests and needs.

The Majlis al-Ulemah will be the only body which will work to arrive at Islamic Rulings on matters, the other two Majlis’ will concentrate on putting forward the best workable proposals – before forwarding them to the Ulemah.

Having the Mujahideen groups unifying into one Army and Amir of Jihad.

Having members of political groups like HT work for State think-tanks on the internal and external affairs of the State. Also putting them forward to administer and execute State Policy within the various departments of the State.

Having Dawah/Tableegh groups deal with policing society (enjoining good – forbidding evil) and carrying the Islamic Message outside the State.

Having the Charity Organisations unify there efforts under an Amir/Wazir for a s department dealing with Zakah, Sadaqah, emegancy relief projects etc.

[BLOOD_THIRSTY]

salaam

when you say the islamic state of iraq are you on about the state in baghdad prior 1924????

and when was afghanistan an islamic state??

JZK

[Abeer-al-Janabi]

The Hizb will remain even after the State has been re-established as it is commanded in Surah Al-Imraan.
The objective will change as resuming the Islamic way of life will have been achieved. It just happens to be that the party was established in a time when the state was not in existance and does not mean it will dissolve once the state returns.

To maintain the revival during the state the party will continue its actions such as concentrated culturing so the party remains functional and as a result individuals fom within the ummah will still be carrying the party ideas.
This is because in surah Al-Imraan "Let their arise amongst you a group..." is referring to a group from within the ummah who is differentiated from the ummah in terms of the level of culture and indoctrination. This was the case with the companions in Medina who were unique from amongst the ummah in the sense of their level of understanding of the Islamic ideology.