Duty of the member/daris outside the majal

[Abu_Hamza]

aoa,
what is the duty of the member/daris outside the majal. what has the Imam Taqi' said about those outside the aera of work especially those in europe and america?
can these members/daris remain outside the majal indefinetly? what about the party body outside the majal, should it not be looking to return to the majal?
ws

[Abu-Musa]

There is no evidence for a Majal in this context. Whether in the Qur'an or the sayings, actions, or the silence of tacit approval from the Prophet(saw).

[Abu_Hamza]

[quote="Abu-Musa"][size=18]There is no evidence for a Majal in this context. Whether in the Quran..etc


aoa,
it is understood that the Rasool(saw) worked in Mecca and it surrounding area's but what of the Muslims who went to Abasynia..were they also ordered, in the specific work,as was Musaib ibn Umar(ra) in Yathrib?
ws

[Abu-Musa]

WS

Forget "it is understood". Bring real evidence please... with references.

Also stipulate which 'work' or duty you are referring to. i.e. Salah, Zakah, Hajj, Daw'ah to al-Khair, Enjoining Good, Forbbiding Evil, Jihad, etc. Please stipulate the exact Shari'ah duty you are talking about.

If you think the Shari'ah is restricted to time and place, then bring evidence for that too.

[Abu_Hamza]

WS

Forget "it is understood". Bring real evidence please... with references.

Also stipulate which 'work' or duty you are referring to. i.e. Salah, Zakah, Hajj, Daw'ah to al-Khair, Enjoining Good, Forbbiding Evil, Jihad, etc. Please stipulate the exact Shari'ah duty you are talking about.

If you think the Shari'ah is restricted to time and place, then bring evidence for that too.


I can see this going the way other threads have gone that u have partaken in i.e. round and round...Definitions have first got to be set down e.g. How do you define a Sahabi?....etc
But suffice to say that the reading of any seera will reveal the efforts exerted by the Rasool (SAW) in his quest to establish Islam as a way of life...and the separation of this work, and his duty as The Rasool e.g. calling people to Islam, teaching Islam to the converted...etc!

WS

[Abu-Musa]

I can see that you avoided bringing the evidences.

Rather you used terms like "suffice to say".

When in fact it does not suffice, as you brought nothing.


So when you were asked to get specific, you tried to wriggle away like a worm.

[AbuNidaal]

LOL

Abu Musa, you have 696 posts here. You haven't seen the adillah for either concepts of the Majal or the Prophet's (saaw) Aml in Makka?

Subhanna Allah. Perhaps you just want the shabab to tighten up on their recollection of the adillah.. For that, I thank you and may Allah reward you, truly.


Salaam

[Abu_Hamza]

I can see that you avoided bringing the evidences.

Rather you used terms like "suffice to say".

When in fact it does not suffice, as you brought nothing.


So when you were asked to get specific, you tried to wriggle away like a worm.



Evidences....based on who's Usool ul-Fiqh?
I adopt the Usool and thus teachings the great Shaikh al-Islam Taqqiuddin an-Nabhani (may Allah be pleased with him) i.e. Qu'arn,Sunna,Ijam as-Sahabi and Kiyas...with more refind definitions of these principles if required....

Once you have stated ur Usool we can discuss the differences in evidences..as u require!

as for wriggling......... I havn't done that since primary school....and i'm a bit overweight to do it now.....besides i have a bad knee ....forgive for not wriggling like a worm ...as u put it.....!

[Abu-Musa]

More wriggling...

Its obviously difficult for you to furnish evidence.

[ubaydullah]

More wriggling...

Its obviously difficult for you to furnish evidence.

Is the Seerah of Muhammad (saws) not evidence enough for you? Or have you had revelation abrigating the method that Rasul (saws) used to transform Dar-ul-kufr to Dar-ul-Islam (maybe at the same time you were told about the Angels helping bring down the twin towers)?!

[Abu_Hamza]

More wriggling...

Its obviously difficult for you to furnish evidence.



it seems u have no understanding of Usoolli Islam ..... if u have a different difinition of who was a Sahabi then Ijma as-Sahabi will be different ..... if ur definition of what constitues the Sunna is different to mine then we will differ in our understanding......

It was Shaikh al-Isalm the Imam Shafi who said
"Bring me a sane man and i will defeat him...bring me an insane man then he will defeat me".

On this basis.......i accept defeat by you...!!!

[Abu-Musa]

Tut Tut Tut...

All this fuss, and all I asked for was EVIDENCE.

[BLOOD_THIRSTY]

more like brother abu_hamza has had enough of your stupidity and has settled it in a good way...

its true.....you can never win against someone who's insane...in this case stupid...

[Abu-Musa]

More like...

You can never win against someone who asks for evidence... when you haven't got any!

[Baatil_Ka_Kaatil]

MashAllah nice to see the intellectual level of discussion going on here.

[abuaamina]

can someone please address the actual comment made at the start, jazak-allah.

[Abu-Musa]

The Prophet(saw) DID NOT pray Salah in London.

So does that mean we do not pray Salah in London either?!


Since non-actions are now evidence.

[BLOOD_THIRSTY]

YOU CAN TALK.........I THINK EVERYONE KNOWS ABOUT YOU AND YOUR 'ANGELS' THAT SPEAK TO YOU....!!!

[kingadris]

abu musa your makeing a joke out of it...

the prophet didnt pray in my local mosque...so does that mean we dont...?????

the prophet didnt drive a ferari, does that make it haram????

if reali want to i can get my 8yr old sitser to explaint o you...

[Abu-Musa]

Exactly.

So you agree that if the Prophet(saw) engaged in his mission in a particular area, therefore it does not mean we are not allowed to work outside that area.

Therefore our duties are not generally restricted to a location or 'majal'.

So the 'majal' is really a joke.

[Abu-Musa]

This should be re-labelled the lack of evidence for a majal - post.

[ubaydullah]

This should be re-labelled the lack of evidence for a majal - post.

Ironic statement from someone who is too gutless to respond to being asked for evidence with regard to his claim that angels helped in 9/11 on this thread http://www.hizbuttahrir.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1121&start=15

Shouldn't you practice what you preach and provide your evidence first before accusing others of lacking it?

[Abu-Musa]

At least you don't deny they aint no evidence for a Kufr concept like majal.

[Abu_Hamza]

At least you don't deny they aint no evidence for a Kufr concept like majal.

Is Shaikh al-Pragmatic Abu Musa still at it....!

Well Shaikh al-Pragmatic ur mate King Abdi' was in town from Saudi what u done about him...?

[abujamal]

Wouldn't bother flogging dead-horses who beleive the angels were also in with the Americans in 911 as well as his shake ;P

Discussion of Majal does not apply to those who do not accept/have the ability to comprehend that the Islamic State is built on the Aqeedah, the Method of the Messenger (saw) who restricted the territorial scope (arabic for majal) which he was targetting for the birth of the State which for many years was Mecca and then later Madina despite Muslims being present in other areas as well as abyssinia such as the tribe of Ghifaar. For any normal Muslim, it would indeed be scary to describe this targetting as kufr which does not mean dawa ceases elsewhere.

So anyone would think then that our virtual cheer-leading jihadi was then, by his understanding and method, working to establish the Islamic State in his locality, London. ie engaged ina Jihad to seize power from the Labour party, and by his own understanding would be sinful if he was not? So may be he can share with us how he is fulfilling his obligation as he thinks following the Method of the Messenger (saw) is kufr?

[Abu-Musa]

At least you don't deny they aint no evidence for a Kufr concept like majal.

Is Shaikh al-Pragmatic Abu Musa still at it....!

Well Shaikh al-Pragmatic ur mate King Abdi' was in town from Saudi what u done about him...?


Ooh! Personal attacks!?
(The ones that occur when someone is losing the argument)

And king abd-al-amrika is not my mate. He is an Apostate-Kafir.

[BLOOD_THIRSTY]

its not personal attacks its just that when someone is so hell bent on chatin rubbish it seems to the hell bent person that he is getting personally attacked....dnt wory its nothing personal...

so what did you do about king abdi??
y didnt u kill him just like you've 'killed' people in the best???lol

[Abu-Musa]

its not personal attacks its just that when someone is so hell bent on chatin rubbish it seems to the hell bent person that he is getting personally attacked....dnt wory its nothing personal...

so what did you do about king abdi??
y didnt u kill him just like you've 'killed' people in the best???lol

nearly, did.

next time inshallah.

[BLOOD_THIRSTY]

nearly, did.

next time inshallah.

so can you explain to me how you nearly killed him??
and how have you tried to kill gordon brown,blair, bush and the rest of the kuffar leaders who have visited britain???

[Abu-Musa]

For a joker, you don't get much do you.

[BLOOD_THIRSTY]

AND FOR A VIRTUAL JIHADDI YOU REALLY ARE A MUPPET!!!

SO YOU WERE JOKING ABOUT KILLING KING ABDI??

WOULD HAVE THOUGHT SO SEEING AS THO YOURE ALL MOUTH...

[Abu-Musa]

You've already demonstrated ignorance of what actions I do and do not undertake.

[BLOOD_THIRSTY]

DNT CRY ABOUT IT....

I'VE TOLD YOU WHAT YOU DO...EVERY1 CAN TEL YOU THE EXACT SAME THING...

YOU SPEAK ABOUT JIHAD...BOTTLE IT....GO ONTO THE FORUM....AND TAKE IT OUT ON THE KEYBOARD....

[abujamal]

Wouldn't bother flogging dead-horses who beleive the angels were also in with the Americans in 911 as well as his shake ;P

Discussion of Majal does not apply to those who do not accept/have the ability to comprehend that the Islamic State is built on the Aqeedah, the Method of the Messenger (saw) who restricted the territorial scope (arabic for majal) which he was targetting for the birth of the State which for many years was Mecca and then later Madina despite Muslims being present in other areas as well as abyssinia such as the tribe of Ghifaar. For any normal Muslim, it would indeed be scary to describe this targetting as kufr which does not mean dawa ceases elsewhere.

So anyone would think then that our virtual cheer-leading jihadi was then, by his understanding and method, working to establish the Islamic State in his locality, London. ie engaged ina Jihad to seize power from the Labour party, and by his own understanding would be sinful if he was not? So may be he can share with us how he is fulfilling his obligation as he thinks following the Method of the Messenger (saw) is kufr?


You would have thought he was at least going to pretend to be performing his obligation of establishing the State where he lives by his method?

[BLOOD_THIRSTY]

So may be he can share with us how he is fulfilling his obligation as he thinks following the Method of the Messenger (saw) is kufr?



ASTAGURALLAH!! HOW CAN SOMEONE NOT ACCEPT THE METHOD OF THE MESSENGER...
NO WONDER....THIS REFLECTS IN HIS POSTS AS WELL...COMON ABU MUSA!!

[Abu-Musa]

There is no 'territorial scope', the Prophet(saw) simply undertook his duties in the place he was born and where Jibreel(as) revealed Allah's(swt) Words to him. Likewise just because he prayed in Makkah, does not mean those prayers had a territorial scope.

You need to provide real evidence, rather than non-actions which are not evidence. This does not even amount to a tacit-approval where an act occcured in front of the Prophet(saw) and he remained silent on that matter.

So provide evidence of what the Prophet(saw) SAID or DID.

Rather than what He(saw) DID NOT DO and DID NOT SAY, unless it is in relation to a tacit-approval. Unless you say that such non-actions and non-sayings of the Prophet(saw) are now evidence!? Then this brings some serious questions of HTs' understanding of The Sunnah. (not the first ones mind)

You guys cannot even provide details of when the hukm to establish an 'Islamic State' was revealed, forget whether the duty had a territorial scope or not.


More 2-bit political analysis of the Seerah... and concluding that 2 + 2 = 7.

[abuaamina]

still waiting for your method and ijtihad?

[kingadr15]

if something was not permisable then the prophet would have spoke out against it, the fact that he remained silent implies that the action is permisable. we need further clarification to determain weather it is makroo or not...

[abujamal]

Wouldn't bother flogging dead-horses who beleive the angels were also in with the Americans in 911 as well as his shake ;P

Discussion of Majal does not apply to those who do not accept/have the ability to comprehend that the Islamic State is built on the Aqeedah, the Method of the Messenger (saw) who restricted the territorial scope (arabic for majal) which he was targetting for the birth of the State which for many years was Mecca and then later Madina despite Muslims being present in other areas as well as abyssinia such as the tribe of Ghifaar. For any normal Muslim, it would indeed be scary to describe this targetting as kufr which does not mean dawa ceases elsewhere.

So anyone would think then that our virtual cheer-leading jihadi was then, by his understanding and method, working to establish the Islamic State in his locality, London. ie engaged ina Jihad to seize power from the Labour party, and by his own understanding would be sinful if he was not? So may be he can share with us how he is fulfilling his obligation as he thinks following the Method of the Messenger (saw) is kufr?


You would have thought he was at least going to pretend to be performing his obligation of establishing the State where he lives by his method?

So may be he can share with us how he is fulfilling his obligation as he thinks following the Method of the Messenger (saw) is kufr?

[kingadr15]

AND FOR A VIRTUAL JIHADDI YOU REALLY ARE A MUPPET!!!


YOU SPEAK ABOUT JIHAD...BOTTLE IT....GO ONTO THE FORUM....AND TAKE IT OUT ON THE KEYBOARD....


still waiting for your method and ijtihad?


So may be he can share with us how he is fulfilling his obligation as he thinks following the Method of the Messenger (saw) is kufr?


dont dodge this 1 please...

[BLOOD_THIRSTY]

dont dodge this 1 please...

[Abu_Hamza]

There is no 'territorial scope', the Prophet(saw) simply undertook his duties in the place he was born and where Jibreel(as) revealed Allah's(swt) Words to him. Likewise just because he prayed in Makkah, does not mean those prayers had a territorial scope.

You need to provide real evidence, rather than non-actions which are not evidence. This does not even amount to a tacit-approval where an act occcured in front of the Prophet(saw) and he remained silent on that matter.

So provide evidence of what the Prophet(saw) SAID or DID.

Rather than what He(saw) DID NOT DO and DID NOT SAY, unless it is in relation to a tacit-approval. Unless you say that such non-actions and non-sayings of the Prophet(saw) are now evidence!? Then this brings some serious questions of HTs' understanding of The Sunnah. (not the first ones mind)

You guys cannot even provide details of when the hukm to establish an 'Islamic State' was revealed, forget whether the duty had a territorial scope or not.


More 2-bit political analysis of the Seerah... and concluding that 2 + 2 = 7.


So! It was adhok that revelation came to the Prophet…it was adhok that the Prophet was in Mecca…it was adhok that victory came in Medina…it was adhok that Muslims in other areas did not challenge for leadership…it was adhok that Muslims that went to Abyssinia were told not to involve themselves in the nations affairs….wakeup…. have a fag and smell the roses…where ever u are in the world….Sheikh al-pragmatic Abu Musa..!